To ask why people think it’s okay to abuse NHS staff?

[notafanofthisanymore]

I’m NHS admin. I just got a call through to me and I was the wrong person to help, but as it was a simple query (think where to go as opposed to anything medical), I tried to help the patient.

I understand that having health issues is stressful. But I’ve just been called a useless thick bitch and told that my job is the reason the NHS is sinking, because I told this patient something they didn’t like. I was then told that if this patient died on the way to their appointment it would be blood on my hands, and I should hope they don’t.

I’m just baffled. I was polite, answered this person’s question and got abused because they didn’t like the answer (having to go somewhere else for something they needed). In what world is this acceptable?

I agree, what is about lockdown that made everyone so shitty? It's far worse now.

Actually I think ( nhs worker here ) that being abused for trying to deliver an underfunded public service is not acceptable, speak to the politicians not the staff who have little or no power about waiting lists and times .

i asked a patient recently to remove her jewellery ( safety issue for a scan ) and she said ‘I can but I don’t want to ‘
What do you do with someone like that?

They’re the same people who are abusive to retail staff and who march down to school to ‘sort that teacher out’.

They probably grew up watching their parents do it. There have always been gobby and abusive people around. I knew kids at school whose mums were like that, whereas mine would have smacked me if I’d been rude to someone.

It isn't OK and I see the signs in hospitals. However, in my interractions, I have witnessed hospital staff being far ruder to patients, and sometimes me, than vice versa.

Whilst waiting for 6 hours in A&E a few years ago, I heard a sister and admin rip into an ambulance crew for not registering a patient quickly enough, the crew were waiting for their attention and standing in front of them, a member of the public politely i quired about the remaining wait and was shouted at by reception, two nurses laid into a family for touching something and the F2 I eventually saw was rude and dismissive. It was ugly.

When my son was born 31 years ago I was shouted at twice post natally, once for getting blood on the sheets.

At an ortho/fracture clinic op apt for my dd who was in a wheelchair, I was yelled out by a clinic nurse for not stepping to it quickly enough when dd was called. The wheelchair was caught on vinyl carpet edges. I wasn't rude back but when I asked who she was speaking to I got a barrage. When I asked if she'd like to help me get the chair moving her response was "It's not my job".

Countless registrar apppintments where any other professional adviser would not have been paid due to manner and tone.

To me there seems to be a significant cultural issue whereby all patients are treated the same, like sh1t.

Nowadays I am old and when I encounter it, I call it out but politely.

I would venture that if NHS staff want the public to be unfailingly polite, they deal with issues closer to home.

i asked a patient recently to remove her jewellery ( safety issue for a scan ) and she said ‘I can but I don’t want to ‘
What do you do with someone like that?

Tell them that it's Hospital/Trust Policy and she won't get the scan done if she doesn't comply. If she doesn't like the Policy she should complain to the Chief Executive or whoever runs the whole show.

When I worked for the NHS I had little slips of paper typed out with the Chief Executive's name and 'phone number on. If anyone got too awkward I told them "I don't make the rules I only apply them" and gave them a slip telling them that this was the person in charge.

My attitude was that
a) I was in a clinical role only and
b) didn't get paid enough to deal with that kind of hassle.

This.

For the most part, the NHS is a bit shit (although there are some places where it shines), and working there doesn’t make you any better than anyone else (and I’m not saying you think it does!). I imagine this person speaks to retail workers, bus drivers, police and bin men in a similar way. They’re just dicks to everyone. I assume because they like unhappy lives.

Don’t be ridiculous, I was not telling people to go on a rampage. But if you repeatedly push people until they break, eventually they will break.

And don’t be so dismissive of “it was only a routine appointment”. We are constantly threatened with being removed from clinic if e miss an appointment, guilted into tying ourselves in knots to not waste “precious” NHS time. I spent three days trying to reschedule an appointment. I only get paid if I work. I was able to make some of the time up in the evening but not all of it. Maybe you are one of these fortunate people who can miss three days pay without consequences? Or maybe the reason it is so hard to get through to anyone is that you are all on the phone trying to sort out your own appointments? The system is not fit for purpose and no one seems to have the inclination to fix it. Right now I am missing another days work sitting on a corridor floor with DH waiting (at 11.15) for his 9.35 appointment. Navigating this shit is like a full time job. And I have to pay for the privilege. I don’t shout at staff, but I have every sympathy with the broken people who do. The staff here shut down years ago, and I can’t really blame them either. No one is treated with respect. The NHS needs be completely reformed, not kept limping along like a sacred cow.

I would argue that the “special status” you get in the NHS is that people are often stressed, unwell, perhaps upset when they make contact with NHS workers, so the stakes are often already high when the communication begins. It is therefore prone to escalate much more quickly and end with a negative outcome for some or all of those involved.

Being unwell, anxious or upset is no excuse to treat people badly, but alas it happens and there are some idiots who will project their worries and frustrations, unhelpfully, on to others.

I wouldnt call it ‘special status’ but working in the NHS and similar settings provides a unique set of circumstances when it comes to dealing with the public.

Unfortunately people are getting a lot ruder in general everybody in public facing roles is feeling with this at the moment. In the NHS I know theres a lot of rudeness to staff by patients but there's just as much rudeness by staff to patients. Not in the OP's case just in general.

I'm sorry this happened OP. It's unacceptable, and 'it happens to all public-facing roles' doesn't make it okay, nor should it ever do so.

The NHS is meant to be 'zero tolerance' but the abuse and aggression I've witnessed (including from some patients towards other patients) is usually overlooked and excuses made. In extreme cases, on my old ward the matron would give a yellow card, and if a further serious offence created, they would be banned from that ward for the future. What does that really change?

Is there anyone you can escalate it to?

Hope the day gets better and people are more pleasant, or at the very least, not active arseholes.

I think it's the frustration, particularly if you are in a phone-loop-of-doom which many of us will have spent hours in, just trying to find out something basic.

Having said that, conflict training is standard in the NHS and I'm sorry you are feeling upset about this - it is part of the job now unfortunately. Please chat through with your manager about how you feel - conflict training is really helpful in both managing these conversations and preventing them, and also knowing how to process things afterwards. x

You presumably tell them ‘ well we can’t do the scan then.’

I once had a student ask to leave the exam room early and when she saw me start to write the time of leaving on her script said she’d rather I didn’t do that. I told her it was her choice - stay the full time, or leave early and I write the time of her departure. No third option .

When I invigilate in school and a student walks off before their row has been dismissed, the dismissing teacher does not mess about. Sit back down- or leave and do the exam again in detention after school on Friday. No third option.

Jewellery off and have the scan. Keep jewellery on and no scan. As a society we need to enforce consequences, and it should start at home. Bad behaviour from a three year old leads to removal from the park /pool/ soft play. That way a child learns about consequences long before it becomes a serious matter. I have taught a few students over the years whose parents clearly never drilled this lesson into them. The result is that the consequences they faced were the loss of summer resit opportunities which means facing a retake year costing over £9k in fees plus whatever it costs them to live. So possibly approaching £20k because they ignored a rule about how much work needed to be submitted to retain resit opportunities. Every single time the student appeared astonished that they faced unpleasant consequences and that no one could get them out of it.

Presumably people think that swearing at NHS and other staff will result in no consequences, but that can’t be always the case as there have been cases of patients being removed from GP lists for poor behaviour.

Yes of course that is the rule - but 5 minutes arguing and enforcing iswasring my time and theirs and it’s the attitude that’s annoying.

TBH I don’t understand why anyone feels they are entitled to be rude to anyone, no matter the tresses of their circumstances. It’s not just the NHS, it’s in shops, the hospitality industry, the way people speak to teachers.

I think people have lost the ability to engage in civilised discourse. I am perfectly capable of telling an admin/receptionist/server on the phone ‘that I am perfectly livid because of X, Y X’ but also that I know it is not their fault, so if there is anything in my tone I apologise as it is absolutely not targeted at them, but that I’d appreciate their help resolving the issue.

There is nothing wrong with expressing feelings of anger and frustration - but you don’t target that at another person and you don’t insult people.

@notafanofthisanymore I’m so sorry this happened to you. It’s unacceptable behaviour which unfortunately is increasing.

Society is at an all-time low, and people are stressed and feel more entitled. We also have a rise in fascism.

I had it all the time when I worked for the nhs, I would refuse to see them again. I did get pulled up for it, but my manager always agreed with me.
My friend gets abuse in the vets where she works on reception.

We’re the new retail staff in the NHS. Low paid and therefore we can be abused by those who expect us to help them. Footballers are more valued. There’s the sexist element too. Women, who are over represented in the nhs and admin, are worth nothing after all. So it’s low paid, so clearly low value, so men won’t do it. Round and round we go…

Lest we forget, the biggest users - and logically abusers too therefore - are that generation. Cue the complaints and self justification from them too.

Dont think this is an nhs thing, its just working with the public, some of whom are twats essentially.

i work in a supermarket, ive had people scream, call me a cunt, throw things etc the joys of working with the public!

Four hours would be good where I am, the wait can be 18 hours

Explain why it is necessary...?

People forget that some NHS staff also abuse their patients especially if they are disabled. I have been labelled aggressive rude, difficult etc just for trying to explain that being deaf means that I will not hear my name called for appointments, I have missed drinks and meals because I never even knew they were on offer, shouted at, told off... I was even woken up once by a.midwife screaming abuse at me because I had not woken to care for my new born baby that was crying, I had, of course, informed the ward beforehand that I was deaf which meant that I would not hear anything when I was asleep.
The NHS Accessible Information Standard is supposed to ensure that all patients with communication problems are flagged, with their communication preferences noted and used.
This is the NHS's best kept secret and the majority of hospitals are still not compliant. The buck stops with the hospital CEO. However, hospitals spend more money campaigning for Stone wall and the shades of brown badges than they do for promoting the need for reasonable adjustments due to disability. I have mobility problems too.
I do wonder how many cases of abuse of a NHS worked might actually be caused by the staff having abused a disabled or sick patient beforehand.
I am wary of apportioning blame unless I have heard from both sides of the story.

I dont honestly think that the way the NHS is funded will make much difference to people’s entitlement or the freedom they feel to abuse key workers. It might help with other things but not that.

She’s not claiming special status. Where does she say that?
She’s just querying rude behaviour, and mentioned she is NHS staff ??? Also it’s *they’re and NHS.

It isn’t acceptable for anyone to be rude but this goes both ways.

After a recent period of ill health where I have been condescended, patronised and been rude to for absolutely no reason by everyone from admin staff to nurses to consultants, I am now just the right side of civil (I am generally a really polite and friendly and understanding person).

For the last few years, being a patient in the NHS has felt very much like being granted a favour by a benevolent organisation rather than using a tax funded public service.

As someone who also works in a challenging, overstretched, public sector role, I would not get away with treating service users in that way.

What happened I am afraid is not probably anything to do with you but a frustrated reaction to feeling they are being passed from pillar to post. And when someone’s health is at stake people do feel more stressed than normal.

When faced with an angry member of the public you have to be aware of how you are feeling yourself, and how to try to lower the temperature.
Appreciating where they are coming from helps.

I have at times been frustrated by the NHS. I haven’t ever called anyone names though. Before anyone assumes, I am a huge believer in it. It does though need some change.

I have had someone tell me on the telephone they could not deal with my query as they were going home . It was 4.30. I asked if there was anyone taking over from them. No. To me that was unacceptable. Not even coverage until 5pm.
Another time I was told by an arrow to log my appointment into a machine. There was a receptionist right in front of me. Head down. After trying the machine ( goodness knows whose bright idea sold it to someone and how much it cost), told me to speak to the receptionist. Who promptly said, okay, take a seat.
I remember being seen by a consultant who I could not understand. Then I saw he was looking at a mans file. Not mine. I mentioned to the nurse who laughed and said ‘ oh you are right aren’t you’. I didn’t find it funny. It terrified me.
Being unable to get a doctors appointment at your local GP has become a norm.
Nurse, yes, nearly a doctor but not quite, yes. GP no.
There are many more negative experiences I have had.
They also saved my life once.

But what you experienced was probably the final straw that broke the camels back. From someone who is already anxious.