To ask why people think it’s okay to abuse NHS staff?

[notafanofthisanymore]

I’m NHS admin. I just got a call through to me and I was the wrong person to help, but as it was a simple query (think where to go as opposed to anything medical), I tried to help the patient.

I understand that having health issues is stressful. But I’ve just been called a useless thick bitch and told that my job is the reason the NHS is sinking, because I told this patient something they didn’t like. I was then told that if this patient died on the way to their appointment it would be blood on my hands, and I should hope they don’t.

I’m just baffled. I was polite, answered this person’s question and got abused because they didn’t like the answer (having to go somewhere else for something they needed). In what world is this acceptable?

Your mistake here is to think that they even get as far as deciding its ok.

They dont even stop to consider whether its ok or not.

They dont think about you at all.

They only see themselves and the problem they are having.

You are just a malfunctioning device, like a wonky telly that you thump on the top to get the picture back.

Everyone public facing / serving gets it from such people.

You cant reason with them because they are the same people who think the person they are dealing with (admin, receptionist, call centre worker) is in control of company policy, has the ability to give them whatever they want and is simply choosing not to in order to ruin their life.

There is just no getting through to that level of stupid.

@Lordofmyflies the cost is interesting. I have been called for my shingles jab by my surgery (excellent). It costs about £450. However, I was also called for the pneumonococcal vaccine. The sysyem woukd not let me make one appointment for both jabs. I had to phone to arrange that.

It seems to me that just a little joined up thinking would save everyone time and make things more efficient. That's what's missing.

What people in any public facing role need to remember (be taught in proper training) is that the public aren't talking to you, they're talking to your organisation. In that moment you are the organisation.

In some circumstances it's taken them hours or even months to get as far as talking to you. To then have "the organisation" tell them they can't help is going to infuriate, and if they're also in pain and worried as well as frustrated, the human response isn't always going to be nice.

If you do proper training you learn to diffuse these situations by taking responsibility. Everyone knows it's not your fault, but it is the fault of the organisation you represent, and to the person you're talking to you are that organisation.

It's staggering how many NHS staff don't get that, but again not the fault of individuals, but of the organisation and it's culture.

@SerenaCat93 That isn't fair to vets! Vets and vet nurses are on the whole are extremely kind to the animals.

My mum has been in/out of hospitals for the past year with the same symptoms - so I've experienced a lot of NHS recently :-(

(no dept wants to investigate why so that she can ditch the newly acquired blue badge home carers and go back to leading her normal very active busy bee life ..but that's another thread)

• The nurses shout at her like she's deaf, and act like she is a nuisance when she rings for the commode (after making her wait). She has wet herself waiting on numerous occasions because she cannot move. she would love to simply get up and walk to the toilet herself.

• the staff come along at random, close the curtains and strip her nightclothes off - "we are washing you now" . No permission, no requesting... they just come and access your body. don't forget to be grateful now.

• The doctors and ward staff act like you're irritating when you ask what the next steps are, or what is planned next etc or just an update. You know, because mum was off her face on morphine at that early stage of admission and can't remember what was said on the rounds

• the treatment plan changes, and doesn't seem to make sense... but don't you dare ask staff why. Be grateful now, remember.

• you're told to keep on top of your pain, and ask for pain relief . "we never let anyone be in pain" - apart from when the shift changes over and the nurses spend so long faffing about before giving people their pain relief that they were due 60-90 minutes ago. Not isolated - every bloody morning, in both hospitals on all four wards. But "we never let anyone be in pain". Don't raise this with the matron either, you ungrateful little ...

• the carers at come - they come in and start bossing her about in her own home. Again shouting, acting like they're doing her a favour getting her some bread from the kitchen or filling a water bottle up. Are you grateful yet?

I could go on and on. So many more examples. And sadly probably more to come.

IMO the banging of the saucepans at 8pm every night on doorsteps up and down the country contributed to the elevation of NHS staff to God-like status and trained us all to never, ever question anything from anyone wearing an NHS badge. Belongs in the folder mad shit we did in covid, filed right next to "washing the tinned groceries".

The system isn't any good to either majority. Neither patients nor staff.

It annoys me that no one ever names the nasty nurses (understandable if you are in the hosp but you could name them after), the bad ward, the hospital - we just get this constant on going complaining as if everyone in the NHS is the same. At least name the hospital - no wonder Nottingham gets away with years of bad maternity care no one names and shames

Unfortunately not for A&E!

I don’t understand your posts.

A patient asked you where they should attend their appointment?
You directed them to the right place.
They told you that they would need a wheelchair.
You told them how to access one.
They called you a, ‘Useless thick bitch.’
Mmmm… I think you may have ‘mis-remembered’ this interaction.

Or, as many PPs have pointed out, something about your responses triggered the caller. Can you ask for more training to see how to de-escalate these presumably frequent and innocent requests?

So far we’ve heard how:

• It’s not your job to help patients who need hospital transport. Whose job is it and why didn’t they deal with it?
• You can’t help patients who need a wheelchair to access their appointments and don’t understand how this could be a problem.
• You think it’s okay to question another poster with the phrase, ‘Are you well? Like genuinely, are you okay?’ This is rude. Are you suggesting that the PP has mental health difficulties and are ridiculing them for it?😬
• You have misinterpreted a number of posts, even when they are written down and you have chance to re-read them before responding. Do you usually shoot so much from the hip, without understanding what you are being asked/told?

It really doesn’t seem that you like patients very much and are not suited to your job. You have misunderstood quite a few posts on here. Your responses do not demonstrate that you have the skills needed to deal with frustrated and desperate patients. You have not shown any empathy, despite almost everyone agreeing with you that being insulted is not okay.

Every response you make paints you in an increasingly poor light. You don’t see it. Please read the PPs from many NHS staff who show empathy and understanding, often in very tricky situations. They also agree you shouldn’t be insulted.

You seem very far removed from the realities of current patient’s experiences of many parts of the NHS. Please stop blaming the patients for needing help.

Oh I hear you, I work in the housing department at my local council and teller abuse we get when the policy doesn’t go peoples way is unreal. And if I had a pound for every time I hear “if I’d come on a boat I’d be rehoused though”…. Well not by us you wouldn’t as you’d be bottom of the list for not coming rom this area but you carry on spouting your bullshit…

I don't name them on mumsnet (certainly not individuals) but I certainly raise complaints if I see poor practice

the abuse we get
bloody false nails

I do my absolute best for all my patients and Im never rude to anyone but on the other hand the so called zero tolerance policy is a nonsense. Nothing is ever done unless we actually get stabbed or beaten. We are asked what we could have done better.
I always reply...thanks I'll make sure I single handedly reform the NHS next time to prevent this abuse happening again.

This is so true!

Unfortunately, the OP doesn’t understand this. This might be lack of training, poor management or a workplace culture issue. In my experience, many of the wonderful NHS staff I have encountered recognise that a poor service is sometimes provided and encourage formal complaint to try and record/promote change. It is not usually the fault of the individual staff members.

The personal insult hurled at the OP was possibly because the caller was at the end of their tether with the organisation. The OP doesn’t say why the caller was so frustrated. Perhaps she doesn’t know? Maybe she doesn’t care? Training would help this.

To the caller, the OP did seem useless. To be fair, an appointment you can’t physically access is pretty useless. They also seemed to question her intelligence too, but it’s unclear why. We don’t know what the OPs tone was on the call and only have her responses on here to form any kind of judgement. In my opinion, it is unacceptable to call someone a bitch, even if they were acting like one.

It's easier to name the good ones because they are so few and far between!

Dr Malhas at New cross hospital is the only kind, empathetic and knowledgeable gynaecologist I have ever been treated by. Every other gynaecologist at new cross in Wolverhampton, the princess royal in Telford and at Stoke city Hospital has been dismissive, cruel and performed agonising procedures on me without any pain relief. The nurses accompanying them have held me down whilst forcefully telling me it shouldn't hurt it just a bit uncomfortable 🙄

One nurse named Bruce at Stoke City hospital was gentle and caring and I still remember him fondly 14 years later. Every other nurse I have had the misfortune of coming into contact with has been impatient, treated me like I'm stupid and seem to make everything they do as painful as possible whilst telling me it doesn't hurt.

My current GP is wonderful, as was one I had 15 years ago. Every other GP I've had the misfortune to need has been rude, dismissive and guarded by a pack of angry receptionists determined to tell me that whatever problem I have isn't something that needs an appointment in the next 6 weeks.

I don't trust medical staff at all after the horrific things they've done to me and the way they have treated me over the years. Shall I go on? I haven't got any more good staff to tell you about it's just a long list of bad ones. And before you go off about paying for private care if it's not good enough, I have. It cost me me life savings to get treated when the NHS just kept fucking it up.

Thousands of people are making complaints and staff are named and shamed all the time in these complaints. Do you really think the bad staff are the minority and they just carry on because no one names them? Seriously?

I never give any indication of where I live on MN.

Sorry to disappoint.

I really don't think MNet should be used to name and shame specific HCPs.

She said it wasn’t possible to book a wheelchair (which it’s not) and then have information on how and where to get one! Surely not unhelpful?

I did write a letter of complaint after a long stay. I didn't remember a lot of the names of the nurses, most were pretty bad. I can remember the names of the good ones.

After a long letter I got a reply back stating " we are sorry to hear of your issues. We have lookied closely nto your stay on xx ward

Well they obviously hadn't as I had never ever been on that ward

BTW it was Basildon hospital Bulphan ward I was in

Hope you put a flag on their file for being abusive

We have started complaining. It’s important that we do from receptionists to nurses and doctors. Service and care is dire in many areas of the NHS and if we don’t complain things won’t change.There is a huge amount of arrogance within the NHS and a feeling that NHS staff are somehow above criticism and can do what they like. They’re not but continuously turning a blind eye perpetuates dreadful service and care.

This is an excellent post. I work in a somewhat customer-facing role and have often wondered why some colleagues are quick to be defensive or chippy and therefore - of course - experience more than their share of difficult customers, whereas other colleagues never have any issues. And I think you have nailed it. Of course it can be hard not to take rudeness personally but there are ways to manage it, and people will often come to their senses and the interaction ends positively. A win all round.

While there are some people who are going to be rude/abusive - more so in a healthcare situation - and that’s not acceptable, I have often been shocked by the rude and dismissive attitude of some NHS staff. That’s when I’ve been nothing but polite and amenable. They act like they are doing you a massive favour. It’s not okay, and the culture within the organisation increasingly seems to be 1) you are not paying so you have no right to expect courtesy 2) we are working harder than anyone else and cannot be expected to be courteous.

Yes I had a bed that was broken and wouldn't move and I couldn't move myself ( 3 shift changes to get another) water jug being taken to be filled and still not returned over an hour later, bell being put behind me where I couldn't reach it, windows closed ( single room) despite me boiling up because " it was too cold for a nurse coming in" etcetc etc

My daughter reported this to pals which just resulted in a nurse coming in saying " I heard you grassed us up to pals" and moving my bedside table out of my reach

This was before COVID. I certainly was not banging bloody saucepans

We are just numbers fur them, as a PP said.

I think it depends on your definition of abuse. For me, it means shouting and screaming and swearing and being rude.

But some public-facing staff think you are being abusive if you disagree with them or ask them to do their job properly.

A non-NHS example - train ticket doesn't work in barriers. I go to member of staff and ask them to let me through. They are very reluctant and say I must have had it next to phone. I didn't, as it happens. But I said "well it's not really fit for purpose then is it". Member of staff says they are going to call their boss because I am abusive (code for you're a woman with an opinion and I don't like it). I just told him to go ahead. He didn't and opened the barrier. This was years ago to be fair.

An NHS example - my mum's pharmacist are incompetent and often dispense the wrong things (or at least the wrong amounts). If you ask why is this wrong they point to the sign that says they are not to be abused. This was not years ago.

I agree it must be really hard for the staff when they ARE doing their jobs properly but are hampered by lack of resources/too much to do/can't work miracles. But people are ill and frightened or they just don't want to waste a day trying to get something that should take 10 minutes.

I agree with you OP and I’m sorry you had to deal with that. I work in a pharmacy and receive daily abuse from patients who are annoyed at the system. There are many flaws and cracks, but they’re taking it out on people who are trying to do their best in a job most people genuinely wouldn’t want to do. Am I truly personally responsible for the NHS’s lack of funding? I’m paid minimum wage in a very stressful environment to dispense people’s medication and get told on a weekly basis how shocking the system is, how no one answers the phones, how they’ve waited for “ages” for their medication etc. I really try to empathise that people are stressed and in pain but I am also human. I am on medication myself, I’m on the same waiting lists with my GP, it’s like they truly don’t think we understand and yet we are better equipped to understand the struggles than they are!
People on a daily basis expect me to chase their medication queries because “I’m not waiting in a phone queue for 30 minutes, I have stuff to do!” I offer to send an email at this point because explaining to them we have NO direct number to the surgeries, we are in the same queue they are simply does not work. People don’t want to sort their own medications, that’s on me. Well, today we had an official complaint because we weren’t answering the phone and the times called we were on a 25 minute hold with surgery regarding a patient who had been prescribed the wrong medication. We do care, we really want to help everyone but then we are in trouble for that as well. You just cannot win. If I try to explain it would be incredibly helpful if people could just use the NHS app to request their medication I am told “that’s your job”. Everyone thinks they’re the ONLY patient we’ve got and no one else matters.
God forbid we are human beings who get ill ourselves and who sometimes pick up the wrong medication box while trying desperately to get all the jobs done.
Answer the phones!!!… people shout. But if I kill their nan by dispensing the wrong medication or ignore a queue out the door I’m an absolute villain.
I’m trying my best, actually. For minimum wage. I didn’t choose this career for the money, clearly. But at least treat me with the kindness you expect me to show you.

And for all the posters who put “I agree with you OP BUT…” No, just no.
We Don’t have an issue with people who are disappointed by a missed/cancelled appointment. It’s okay to be disappointed. But taking it out on the messenger isn’t.
Stop going to your pharmacy to bitch about how crap your surgery is and vice versa. We are all just trying our best and trust me it is not easy.

End rant.

then how would you explain how to get the chair differently from the op ?