Question about senior school sets in KS4

[jossbee]

Ds has been told today - last day of term - that next year he will be moving down a set in maths. This is despite him getting some of the highest scores in his class in his exams throughout the year. I haven’t bothered ringing today as it’s the last day and I don’t think teachers will be up for discussing it. I wouldn’t usually interfere but this will affect which paper he can take at GCSE level (foundation only if you’re not in the top set).

Ds is quite downbeat about it as he had done so well in his exams. Does anyone in the teaching profession know why this might be and how I can approach it in September with the school?

Nationally around 40% of pupils sit the higher paper.

So if there's about 100 a year, then three classes, would make sense that just more than one class would do higher paper.

And did all classes sit the end of year paper? At most schools the top set would sit a different paper, so bald marks aren't comparable.

The main thing is what is his target grade.

If they thought he would get a 7 then moving to top set is sensible but actually if his target grade is 5 more sense to stay where he is

OP

You are missing out important information.

Does he have a target grade and what is it?
Did all sets sit the same exams?
How did he get on in years 7 and 8?

Non exam related reasons for moving or not moving a child.

Some children just respond better to certain teachers so it can be worth keeping a child in a set with a teacher who gets good results out of a particular student.

If low level disruption is an issue with a pair or small group of students then splitting them can benefit both sets.

Just email the school and you'll get a response when the teacher is working.
For what it's worth DD was in set 3 at start of year 10, moved to set 1 but struggled with the pace in the class and the teacher and in year 11 she moved to set 2 which worked well. She was doing the higher paper in all 3 sets. (It's a 4 set school).

It may be the learning style in set 2 is more suited to him or the teacher is more suited to him

The decision is unlikely to have been made on which paper yet so plenty of time to discuss that.

I don’t know. I haven’t had a target grade for him yet. I can only tell you what I know. This is why I need to speak to the school.

It might be a conflict with his other subjects, if he's been moved down in science. Bit confused that only the top set do the higher paper! That's very unusual!

Lots of schools that broke up yesterday actually have an Inset day on Monday, as in some places the official term doesn't end until then, so teacher might well be working still - worth emailing.

I'd check whether there were two parts to the end of year test, some which only the higher set did. If he did exactly the same tests as the higher set and scored higher than most of them, then he should be considered for the higher paper. Perhaps they will have a mixed F/H set next year, even if they haven't before now. It could be that there isn't room in the top set for everyone, but it doesn't mean he should be forced into foundation if he is capable of more. It might be that performance throughout the year, and/or behaviour/motivation make them think he's not likely to do the higher paper, in which case getting a solid grasp of foundation could make sense.

Do youvremember his Yr6 Maths SAT score?

Yeh google says about 43% take higher so maybe it was a bit skewed in my DCs' school.

40 students would be a HUGE top set though. I would expect 100 students to be in four sets not three. If there were only three then you wouldn't be able to have a bottom set around 20 which is certainly a good idea IME. I would split 100 students 30/25/25/20. How many sets are there @jossbee ?

His target grade is definitely key here. If it is a 5 then F is the right tier anyway. If it is 7 as others say then he obvs needs to be taking H.

Edited for rogue apostrophe.

Good point btw from @sashh about splitting up disruptive students or a DC gelling better with teacher a than teacher b.

Sounds like they’ve juggled sets and most studious go into set1
Maybe set 2 do H or F

What did his school report say for target grades?

it must be a very unusual school to not have target grades on school reports, that's how every school enables child, parents and teachers to know if someone is on track.

If you have been given no idea at all about where he is aiming that's truly shocking

And furthermore if the school don't share target grades then it is really hard to advise about sets etc because the school obviously operates in a completely different way to every other school in England

Agree that target grade should be on at least two reports a year

Target grades might not be on ks3 reports.

However you can make a decent guess if you know his SATS results. What was his maths scaled score?

Has he been separated from a friend?
It's unlikely that the higher / foundation decision will be made at the end of year 9

So he’s not actually moving down just not moving up?
This is a complete non issue in that case, the school will not appreciate being bothered by something so trivial during the holidays! It sounds as if his behaviour is the reason for him not being moved up. You didn’t mention behaviour in your OP so I am assuming you’re also downplaying how bad this is too. You’d be better off having a serious chat to him about his behaviour and attitude, he needs to understand the consequences of his actions. Improving his behaviour for a few weeks is not enough to be rewarded with a place in a top set! Why should students who work hard and behave every day have their learning disrupted by someone who is messing around? If he’s really serious about moving up then he needs to prove himself to the school and to maintain good behaviour for a bit longer than a ‘few weeks’! This is a valuable life skill he needs to learn otherwise in the future he might be disappointed if he doesn’t get promoted at work because his work ethic isn’t at the required standard. We don’t suddenly wake up one morning understanding the impact of our actions, this is a lesson that needs to be learnt during teenage years!

You’re at a tiny school! My DD’s school has six classes per year so I don’t think your dc school have any excuse for making admin errors but the maths teacher might have just forgot to relay the message that he wants this kid in top set

id say you’re overthinking it OP - just contact the school by email and then park it til Sept and pick up again at start of term if no reply over summer hols.

My dd promised me she’d talk herself to her teacher about the setting error she encountered buy she didn’t so we let a few weeks elapse and school said they couldn’t then change sets til October half term so she had a half term of missed work and it was harder then to catch up and keep up with her top set. I wished I had done something about it over summer.

I think if the school promised top set and marks are fine, you should not “demand” but ask very nicely for reconsideration and say your ds has promised to buckle down and not be a distraction in class and he really wants the chance to sit the higher maths paper.

I’d email the school now to ask. There’s various possible reasons why he’s not been put in the top set, but you won’t know unless you ask.

The teachers may be checking emails over the holiday, or they may be in for inset days. You can always email again at the start of September if you don’t hear back over the holidays.

My DC have their target grades on every school report. I don’t know if it works the same way in every school, but their secondary school base the target grades on the SAT results from Y6.
Although I’d have thought that by the end of Y9, they’d be basing decisions on set placements on a child’s performance throughout secondary school rather than on Y6 SATs results??

What you could do, OP, is email over the weekend taking the line that you wonder if the position could be clarified for you as DS has come home saying he is in a maths set that means he will be taking the Foundation paper, rather than the Higher paper as you would have expected given his marks. You being unclear based on DS report is a more amiable way in than talking about a possible error.

are you sure only set one do the higher paper? Is it a very small school?
My DC moved into set 1 in yr10 but didn’t get on well. They didn’t like the teachers teaching style and found they went too quickly. They asked to be moved back to set 2 in year 11. They flourished once back where they felt comfortable and made great progress. They were never an 8/9 student but are hoping for a 7. Taking the higher paper was always the plan whether they stayed in set 1 or 2, unless they bombed their mocks (which they didn’t).

They still have to consider the SATS to some extent as it's the basis for the Progress calculation.

Thanks for clarifying that he's about to start Y10, that makes the decision make possibly more sense.

It could be the behaviour but could also be the way they've done sets in 7-9. Could be mixed ability, could be that there are two bands and they get merged in Y10 so whilst he may have been (eg) set 2 in band A, when the year group is brought together, he's in set 3 or 4 overall. Worth looking into what these assessments are that he's been doing well in. Some schools do full rehearsals from Y7 with past papers but others only do class assessments. I'd certainly send an email before peoples inboxes start to fill up. Ask about his target too (assuming they've been set), any whiff of a 6 and he should be doing the higher paper.

Tiering decisions (whether to take foundation or higher) are usually not made until Christmas of year 11 and for some students switches are made even later.

it may well be a general rule at the school that set 1 do higher but it isn’t necessarily the case that at 2 only do foundation.

most schools have what’s often called a cross over group where they are prepared for higher but there’s the option to drop down to foundation if they are not coping.

just email the school and ask. If you email now it may not be addressed over the holidays but it’ll be first on the list to be checked in September. Mistakes can happen and it’s better to correct quickly if this is the case.

Every term we are sent a grade sheet which is essentially just a list of subjects and if they are at the expected target, above it or below it. I have not once seen any predicted grades or specific targets. Whether this has been given to ds separately I don’t know.

It is a small school in the context of some big inner city schools, 550 pupils. I’ve checked.

For the helpful poster who mentioned behaviour - yes, I’m aware and it’s been dealt with. For a period of a few weeks earlier on in the term he was silly with his friends. Low level stuff but disruptive nonetheless. It’s not ok, he has been punished and his behaviour has improved for the final few months of term. I don’t think it warrants restricting what paper he can take in his exams when his grades show he’s more than capable of taking the higher paper.

As I’ve said, I definitely need clarity on the situation. Obviously I will advocate for ds being able to take the highest paper he can.

Has ds been on target for maths? How many sets are there?

I think the first task is to get clarity on whether only set 1 does higher tier, as that would be a relatively low % compared to the national picture. It's possible that all set 1 take higher and that set 2 is a mix of H and F, as a PP suggested. End of year 9 is early to be deciding GCSE tiers.