Question about senior school sets in KS4

[jossbee]

Ds has been told today - last day of term - that next year he will be moving down a set in maths. This is despite him getting some of the highest scores in his class in his exams throughout the year. I haven’t bothered ringing today as it’s the last day and I don’t think teachers will be up for discussing it. I wouldn’t usually interfere but this will affect which paper he can take at GCSE level (foundation only if you’re not in the top set).

Ds is quite downbeat about it as he had done so well in his exams. Does anyone in the teaching profession know why this might be and how I can approach it in September with the school?

Def talk to the school. My DC was moved down in year 11. He had got lowest mark in class but not lower than anyone in a set below. We went with it but it meant he didn’t progress in year 11 and got same grade he got on full papers end of year 10. If he got the highest scores an explanation is definitely needed.

I agree. Especially with it being GCSE time, it just doesn’t make sense.

My dd was moved down to bottom set Spanish one year. It was an admin error - she was muddled up with a girl with a similar name!

Email school with an “I just wanted to check you haven’t got this in a muddle because…” message. It’s a perfectly reasonable and VERY important question!

Don’t wait til September

This does sound odd. I would query it with the school, starting with the premise that it's an error. The results speak for themselves.

This is a good take on it. But school has broken up now and I don’t think anyone will be replying to emails. I also want to see if it comes to pass in September but if it does I will absolutely get in touch. It makes no sense and has really soured the end of term for my son. He has had a few issues with low level disruptive behaviour (silly things, like talking in class and messing around a bit) which have been dealt with by the school and at home. I’m really hoping this isn’t what’s done it. I understand behaviour is important in class but he has worked hard and has sorted himself out in the last few weeks.

Just to clarify, is he moving from 9 to 10 to start KS4 or done a year of KS4 and going 10 to 11?

If its the latter then I would definitely enquire as could well be a mistake. If there's only one set doing higher (small school?) and he's one of the best performers in it then there's no way he should be doing a foundation paper. No harm in sending an email now tbh, some HoDs will work the odd day over summer and certainly results days. Might be easier for them to look at it now rather than when they come back in September and don't get chance to look into it fully. If you know the SLT responsible for curriculum too they'd be worth copying in.

You mention he got some of the highest results in the class but which set is he in at the moment? Often the sets change in year 10, in my daughter's school they split the year in half in years 7-9 so they'll have set 1-3 on each half of the year but then they all mix together in year 10 so they have set 1-6, could it be something like this?

Could it be a combined set for Science/Maths like my DD’s is? If he scored lower for Science and higher for Maths it would take an average score.
Our school did move slightly disruptive kids down a set too when they started Y8 so there is a chance it could be that.

I've had another think, OP. If this had happened to my DD, I would have emailed on the last day of term, partly to show DD I was on the case for her, and also to get it partly off my chest, and ccing relevant people - head of department, head of KS4 etc. It's quite possible that one of them will check emails (although they shouldn't) and that looking into what's happened is a quick few-minute task.

Teachers absolutely will see emails over summer. This is an issue for the HOD to look into as it sounds like an error. They need to know now as class sizes may be capped.

Unusual to move between year 10 and year 11 unless he really was being a grade A pain in the bum. In general sets and teachers are kept unchanged (unless eg splitting a class for smaller groups).

year 9 going into year 10 it’s fairly common to do a big ish reorganisation and yes sometimes maths is linked with science groups due to gcse choices (triple or double).

often year 10 has smaller groups than year 9 so maybe there are 6 groups not 4 so it might look from numbers alone like he has gone down but actually they are smaller groups.

often a reason for smaller groups is to split up disruptive kids which it sounds like he might be seen as.

This is a deep feed. He could be preventing other kids from doing well?

I would email and ask for reasons.

If its from higher to foundation and his target is a 5 id leave it.

Are you certain that only the top set takes higher tier? How big a year is it? How many sets? Unless it is a very small school with (say) about 80 in a year; and even then I would expect at least half the year to take higher.

I would raise it with the school though (on that basis, if correct, if no other). What kind of mark (as in, suggested GCSE grade) did he get in year 10 mocks?

I took it btw that he has just finished year 10. Is that not correct? tbh if it is year 9 moving into year 10 then there is plenty of time to change.

I'm glad btw that he has knocked the disruption on the head as it is so annoying when kids talk and mess about. I hope he is clear that it can't start again.

If it was top set it might have been the behaviour.

Sorry he is year 9 going into year 10. The behaviour isn’t acceptable but it was low level stuff and has been knocked on the head. He worked hard and achieved very good marks, better than some in the top set (he is currently set 2 but was told he’d be in set 1 next year and this has now been revoked). But his scores are better than some who are in set 1. Some have moved up and he has done better than them so I’m starting to think it’s the behaviour thing. I need to speak to the school. I don’t want to stew on it over summer but see little point bringing it up before we know for certain what’s happening in September.

Hopefully as pp said there will be time to reevaluate it but I’m not sure I can go in demanding he is moved up. I just want him to be able to sit the higher paper and do the best he possibly can.

How many sets are there @jossbee ? Is it a very small school? Only one set doing higher is very unusual for an average or bigger school.

Hang on.
Has he been moved out of set 2, and into set 3? Or is he just not moving up into set 1, and remaining where he is? Moving him into a top set could absolutely be due to disruptive behavior. Are you sure set 2 dont do a mixture of higher and foundation?
And what's his target?

yes agree – your OP said he had been moved down a set, but now it's just that he hasn't been moved up? Not quite the same thing tbh and yes could be bc of the behaviour.

Why on earth would you wait and see?! You should have rung yesterday. This is important. There will be some admin work over the summer.

Few clarification questions.

1. Has he actually been moved down or just not moved up, so is staying where he is?
2. How many classes and sets in the school. Only two classes is very small.
3. What is his target grade/what did he get in end of year 9 exams?

And schools will still be working over the holidays so you can email now and it will be picked up. And definitely best to email rather than phone anyway so you can make sure the issue gets to the right person .

But depending on the clarification people can help you draft the email

It might be more to do with his target grade than his current grades. We are moving back to progress scores this year, so if his target is a 4 then it makes sense to enter him for foundation to make sure he gets that 4. However, do discuss it because it’s something they will review as it has such a big impact being higher or foundation.

Teacher here. Don't leave it until September. Email the teacher who gave him this news, and copy in the Head of Department (maths) and Head of Year. They will very likely look at their emails over the break, and even if they don't, you've then brought the problem to their attention as soon as you became aware of it, which is the correct thing to do.

Because I only found out at 3pm yesterday - the last day of term before summer. I genuinely didn’t think that teachers would be picking up emails or getting into discussions in the final hours of the last day of term. Plus I’m not completely clear on it myself, I have only had this from ds. No communication from the school.

From what I can gather he is currently set 2, but meant to be moving up to set 1. Now been told he isn’t but many others from the class are, so to him it feels like being moved down. He and I are confused why he isn’t being moved up when he had the second highest score in set 2 and beat quite a few in set 1 also.

And yes he tells me that only set 1 can take the higher paper. It isn’t a huge school. Only around 500 pupils in the whole school. I need to speak to the school to gain some clarity over what’s actually happening.

OK I would certainly email the school.

Do you know what his target grade is? or will that only be given at the start of year 10.

Is this a private school or are you a very rural area? 500 students is very small indeed. But even then (assuming no sixth form) that's 100 in a year, which would suggest four sets; I am still surprised that only 25-30 of them will be taking higher tier. It was more than half more taking higher IIRC in my DCs' school.

One set doing higher is about right proportionally if there's a group of 30. Nationally it's about a 65/35 split (iiric).

Email now, you've got nothing to lose.