To feel I've been lied to about China

[Sulettamercury]

I'm well aware the country is far from perfect but no where is and I've just come back for the summer after spending 2 years there working as a teacher I'm going back in a few weeks.

What I can't get over is the fact all my friends seem to be indoctrinated into thinking China is this 1984 style hell hole where you can't criticise the government or do anything without being in constant fear.

I have to say living there really opened my eyes and I was shocked when in my first months of teaching one of the Chinese workers (now a good friend) started openly moaning about government policy and I'll admit I was nervous at the time but soon realised nothing would happen and that despite what I was told no one came after her and she didn't disappear and that every one was moaning about government policy if it didn't suit them with no consequences.

The infrastructure is also wonderful and far from the cheap rubbish you're told it is and housing isn't all on the verge of collapse or at least no worse than some of the rubbish I've seen here in the UK

Again it's definitely not perfect but AIBU to say I I feel like we're lied to in the west about how bad China really is and that some of the things we accuse them of we either do ourselves or we blow out of proportion?

I think the difference is likely to be that China is great unless you are executed. Here that can’t happen.

Focusing on the smelly toilets missed this part of the post ^

Edited: It might be just defending your original optimistic post and yes all countries have track record of historical human rights abuses and no government is free from acts of corruption or accusations of wrongdoing.

However, the ‘but we’re as equally bad here’ responses simply does not wash. The Chinese government is authoritarian to the point of being totalitarian using the most sophisticated surveillance apparatus and technology to track its citizens. It does so to ensure there is no opportunity for its people to revolt against the one party state.

The UK has many many problems, but I am relieved to be living here where there is still the possibility for citizens to openly criticise the government and not disappear.

I do sometimes wonder lately if some threads are simply to reap responses for machine / AI chatbot learning.

In this case I hope, so because I can't believe someone could live in China for 2 years and yet be so astoundingly blinkered.

I’ve worked in China and for me it’s the appalling cruelty to animals that I can’t get over. The creatures in cages being sold to be eaten just stacked up like crates of melons and as for the wet markets- just look up what these mean.

My friends who have visited recently were astonished at how technologically advanced the country is compared with the West, but also how much anti-US propaganda there is. The surveillance of citizens is facilitated by their superior technology. Face recognition technology, incredible phone/internet connectivity, self-driving cars, they are all there first, but that then makes the security issues worse. You have to register your 'face' prior to entering schools. I firmly believe that China will be the next superpower, if they are not already, and they are far less inclined to pick wars than either Russia or the US.

@Beerpink of course there is and will be many attempts to influence our vote, but the fact is, you mentioned the Tories and Labour. Two very different parties. For all its flaws, the political system here has multiple political parties and you can vote one out another one in as a free expression of your opinion on how the country is being run. That is not possible in China.

Agree. They will be the next super power.
Their technological advances in such a short period of time are incredible.

There are people in my family who think the English sit down for High Tea at 4pm every day, or that the French are all stylish, The Scots have no teeth yet and Swedes are all tall blondes. Meanwhile my dad (lives in California) comments how fat British people are compared to Californians (because even my dad thinks only Americans are the fatties). Yes people do form very wrong impressions.

I visited eastern China when DS was working there, it was an impressive place. People were very friendly and we had a great trip - the infrastructure is very well developed in many places and it felt very safe to be there.

Are you from the cyber red-bots?....You ll get your country firewalled if this continues...and 'weeks'...the new software ain't cutting it.

Please look at how the state treats Uyghur Muslims, there's lots on the BBC about this. Also someone said Christians are flourishing - you have to be a registered church to be allowed to meet and these are under state control so not actually allowed to preach the gospel freely. Christians are monitored constantly and often arrested. They have to meet in secret. Look at stories of Chinese government dictating what British lecturers can say, universities here rely on Chinese students' money. Look at the Chinese government buying British independent schools near sensitive military sites. Do you see many people with disabilities around, do they freely enjoy sports and cultural activities? Despite having strong representation in the Paralympics, are there lots of sports clubs for grass roots participation for people with disabilities? Perhaps ask some of these questions.

That's completely irrelevant to China's appalling human rights record, lack of democracy and as a pp pointed out cruelty to animals.

I have only heard great things about China from people who have lived there.

• state-owned utilities keeps costs for electricity, gas and water incredibly low
• food is cheap and plentiful
• over the past 2 or 3 decades, their economy has grown at an unprecedented rate

Older generations have literally witnessed the country transform thanks to the industrial revolution. Living standards in China now easily surpass what we enjoy in the West. Work pays well (relative to cost of living, although this is ofc dependant on industry, city and province etc)

The fact the Government does not have to worry about democratic elections means it can run far more efficiently. They make long 10-year plans that they KNOW they can implement fully. The power of the CCP also means they don't have a slow, cumbersome and beauracractic process that bleeds money out of building projects and so on. The scandal of HS2 would never happen there (certainly not to the degree it has happened here), thanks to the efficiency of the system. So public money is well spent, and the government wants to invest in the country's infrastructure.

Conversely, there are downsides too. While privately complaining about the government won't get you into trouble as such, you can certainly find yourself in hot water for things you post online, or say in public. Something everyone in China is aware and mindful of.

Fuethermore, their State-owned media simply cannot be trusted to fully report the facts and is often filled with propaganda. Alongside that, mayors of provinces can feel the wrath of Beijing and not have any power to do anything about it.

The one key difference, to me, is the lack of regulation and enforcement of certain rules. You can park pretty much anywhere you want. There are very few construction regulations. Healthy and Safety laws aren't really a thing. What you see on the groud can often feel chaotic, disorganised, and dangerous. But it's also free in a way that we no longer have here in the UK (for better or worse).

Another aspect of Chinese society that is often missed by foreigners who live there is the State's interference in people's lives. There are constant directives issued that curtail freedom of expression, especially for the LGBTQIA+ community.

China is an incredible place. Yes it's far from perfect. But i would argue the UK isn't actually that much different. It's more expensive here, but with arguably just as many laws and regulations that curtail our freedom. It'a just not quite as direct or as obvious as the Chinese system.

I was on an organised tour, & when we were in Tiananmen Square the group repeatedly asked the guide about the massacre in 1989.
After a lot of prevarication, he eventually told us he was not allowed to talk about it.

I have only heard great things about China from people who have lived there.

• state-owned utilities keeps costs for electricity, gas and water incredibly low
• food is cheap and plentiful
• over the past 2 or 3 decades, their economy has grown at an unprecedented rate

Older generations have literally witnessed the country transform thanks to the industrial revolution. Living standards in China now easily surpass what we enjoy in the West. Work pays well (relative to cost of living, although this is ofc dependant on industry, city and province etc)

The fact the Government does not have to worry about democratic elections means it can run far more efficiently. They make long 10-year plans that they KNOW they can implement fully. The power of the CCP also means they don't have a slow, cumbersome and beauracractic process that bleeds money out of building projects and so on. The scandal of HS2 would never happen there (certainly not to the degree it has happened here), thanks to the efficiency of the system. So public money is well spent, and the government wants to invest in the country's infrastructure.

Conversely, there are downsides too. While privately complaining about the government won't get you into trouble as such, you can certainly find yourself in hot water for things you post online, or say in public. Something everyone in China is aware and mindful of.

Fuethermore, their State-owned media simply cannot be trusted to fully report the facts and is often filled with propaganda. Alongside that, mayors of provinces can feel the wrath of Beijing and not have any power to do anything about it.

The one key difference, to me, is the lack of regulation and enforcement of certain rules. You can park pretty much anywhere you want. There are very few construction regulations. Healthy and Safety laws aren't really a thing. What you see on the groud can often feel chaotic, disorganised, and dangerous. But it's also free in a way that we no longer have here in the UK (for better or worse).

Another aspect of Chinese society that is often missed by foreigners who live there is the State's interference in people's lives. There are constant directives issued that curtail freedom of expression, especially for the LGBTQIA+ community.

China is an incredible place. Yes it's far from perfect. But i would argue the UK isn't actually that much different. It's more expensive here, but with arguably just as many laws and regulations that curtail our freedom. It'a just not quite as direct or as obvious as the Chinese system.

i was living in China at the time of the 30th anniversary of Tiananmen Square and vpns were blocked on that day to ensure no broadcasting of any references to the event.

There are some British people and indeed Chinese people who have good lives there. However, a friend of mine had issues with his visa and working rights whilst there and he had to jump through a lot of hoops to enable him to work there.

Yes that is primitive and a world away from what we have in the UK.

yes some UK public toilets are awful, but they have doors (ie privacy) and people can choose to use them or not. They have toilets in their houses. This is the only option for these Chinese residents and I agree it’s very primitive.

I think there will always be variation of life and experience in any country. Even as a tourist to china it was obvious to see experiences in the city would be quite different to some of the rural provinces I visited. We saw some super high tech ways of living and some areas where it felt more like olden time peasantry.

I was most definitely watched though when I was there and was quite aware that our guides were listening to us and were also quite guarded with their own views on things.

I do think china has some advantages re governing in a totalitarian way. They don’t have the chopping and changing we have, can make some tough decisions and can think more longer-term. Obviously there are down sides to that approach too but you can see why they’ll be the next super power if they aren’t already.

That your Chinese friend did not get arrested for moaning about government policy does not set the bar very high.

I've never heard that said. What I tend to hear is that it is spotlessly clean and everyone respects each other. Which is probably not totally true either

The 'whatabout'ery on this thread is of a level that would almost be funny, if it didn't bring home just how ignorant and naive so many people are.

Same when you mention you're from the north of England/Yorkshire.

But it isn't the here and now. There aren't living Romans who got rid of babies, via exposure. We'll never help people living with abuse if we hark back to 'once upon a time'. We have never eaten animals of the type and way the Chinese do. Did you, or anyone you mixed with speak out against this year's Yulin dog abuse festival?

So are you saying that things like special government monitored internet and government maintained strict control over public discourse and dissent don’t exist? So the Chinese people can just log onto Facebook whenever they want? Okay then.

What an odd post

I’m not sure I know many countries where massacring protesters was acceptable.