AIBU to think school are too risk happy with older kids in Forest School?

[LizzieLookAtTheFlowers]

10yo was taking part in organised forest school activity and broke her collarbone. Am all for inherent risk of adventurous play, this is not the issue - had she simply fallen, I wouldn't be here. But, the hammock she was in collapsed and she was tipped out backwards about 110-120cm and landed on exposed tree root causing a displaced clavicle fracture. 2 weeks off school, aside from that healing ok, will need physio as has reduced range of motion.

However, circumstances surrounding the incident concern me.

1. The hammock had also collapsed on the previous go - child thankfully not injured.
2. Teacher was not there, they got him, he re-rigged it and tugged it, told them not to swing then went back to campfire.
3. There were 2 adults to 14 kids overall, but across 2 stations quite far apart, so hammock area couldn't be seen or heard when he was at campfire with the TA and other kids.
4. The big exposed tree root is what broke her collarbone

On first occasion, kids were swinging friends in hammock quite vigorously which is what caused it to fall down. On second occasion, one girl didn't listen and swung my daughter in it, but as she was one small girl it wasn't crazy swinging and it collapsed more dramatically than before.

School have essentially said Y6 are old enough to get on with things themselves and don't need babysitting, they should have been able to trust them (presume this means they blame the girl who swung it but they haven't explicitly said this). they have lowered the hammock a bit to 86cm and that H&S assessor said the knots were fine. But didn't explain why then the hammock repeatedly collapsed if the knots are fine.

They didn't report to RIDDOR as said it wasn't related to a work activity even though it was in lesson time, the equipment failed, had previously failed and teacher decided to keep going with it and leave the kids unsupervised.

No adult witnessed her fall or was there to provide assistance - she had to get up and be helped over to the campfire quite a way away to tell an adult what had happened, and they couldn't even hear her crying.

I feel uneasy. I don't feel the school are learning lessons from this that Y6 kids are still kids. Surely if something changes and a risk becomes KNOWN rather than theoretical they need to change safety plans. I probably wouldn't have left them to it at that point, or would have taken the hammock out of action for the lesson until I could look into why it was falling repeatedly. But their investigation showed "no evidence of unsafe management" not even the hazards in the fall zone or the height or anything (despite them making some changes).

It's not the first time. In last 12 months I know of 4 other kids hospitalised due to forest school. One of them I know the school were really defensive and blasé about. Despite their risk assessment stating "no running", they organised a manhunt activity which resulted in a boy running full pelt into suspended ropes and rebounding off them with his face/neck. He got severe facial/eye rope burns that scarred, whiplash and concussion. They said no safety issues found.

I just... I'm uneasy. I know accidents happen, and these kids will be fine, but both of those incidents plus the other two could have been so much worse and there's just a pattern of ignoring risk assessments and generally saying "oh well the whole point of Forest School is they get a bit roughed up and they're almost at secondary school!" It's always Year 6 that get hurt!

Am I oversensitive? Or should the school be a bit less risky happy?

I think the first few had a decent approach and now it's just letting kids play unsupervised with dangerous things in the hopes they will learn something from it. That always happens when it becomes a virtue signal rather than the thing that it is. I hate the term "unschooling" for instance.

I have managed an outdoor play area in a woodland.

That hammock should have been securely fixed and checked before every use.

The floor underneath should be free from any hard items including sticks or tree roots. The floor underneath should be a soft deep hummus and leaf layer to minimise impact.

The hammock should be no more than 2 feet off the ground and the use of it supervised by a member of staff.

The forest school has been negligent

The rope loosened and slipped down the post. Once partially when all the kids were swinging. Second time it went all the way down when one kid swung it. They are synthetic ropes which apparently are not recommended for this reason because they don't have enough grip.

I thought it was dumb when the school got this climbing frame because OFSTED and some parents wanted the kids to be more active or whatever at break. It immediately became the cause of many a hospital trip. Some by ambulance. I think it's so.silly to try and do the most complicated stuff when you have so many kids to handle.

Hammocks are very dangerous 3000 people are injured or die in them every year just in the USA. One of the biggest killers is unsupervised children getting tangled in them and strangling themselves

4 out of how many? And we only have OP's word for how serious they were.

Some activities are inherently risky, and there "should" be a higher number of injuries to support that.

At extremes, if you want to climb Everest, there is a high risk of death at the top. That's just what it is - and that's why people seek the thrill of the challenge. If a loved one dies attempting this activity, that is just what it is. You don't seek to close the mountain off and ban all mountain climbing going forwards.

But this also applies to tree climbing, trampolining, and many other sports.

If you sanitise every activity, kids fail to learn risk assessment. And this is the reward.

Should the Forest School be closed down because of this? Which I am sure is what the OP and others are hoping for - then no.

Quick! Ban ALLLLL the hammocks!

She fell out of a hammock (obvious risk). She fell on a tree root ....in a forest ........
This is an accident noone is to blame. They were told not to swing it. They did

This is tricky... the teacher did tell them to stop swinging on it and they carried on. I do think at that age they are old enough to climb trees etc. on their own and need to take initiative if something is risky. At that age I was running through woods, climbing trees etc. in the garden with no one watching..
The tree root should probably be removed if possible.
I think further complaints would just stop them doing the outdoor stuff altogether which is probably unfair on the other kids, although I do understand your frustration. Just not sure what you'd gain from further complaints is all.
Hope your child recovers quickly!

I’m thinking the same

take some legal advice @LizzieLookAtTheFlowers

im so sorry to read this.

Meh, I broke my collarbone as a child falling down some stairs. My son broke his collarbone while playing at school. Collarbones break really easily but also tend to heal really well.

It sounds like the staff were doing the right thing by supervising the fire more thoroughly. Unless the tree roots were upright jabbing spikes I think its just one of those things. Are you sure your daughter didn't ask.to be swung?

Most teachers are not forest school practitioners, most teachers are just letting their class run around outdoors doing forest school type activities. There’s often a big difference between an actual level 3 forest school practitioner running an organised session than a teacher and a TA outside setting up a hammock and some ‘outdoor games’.Forest School is a distinct, long-term educational approach centered on child-led play, routine woodland visits, and potentially high-risk activities like fire lighting and tool use. The Forest School Association mandates that these programs be run by an accredited Level 3 Forest School Leader. Makes me cross when teachers think they can run these sessions on a budget, when they often don’t have the formal training.

The school failed in two ways -

Not positioning the hammock safely with nothing below it.
Not supervising the activity.

Had teaching staff followed the risk assessment and supervised appropriately it’s unlikely anyone would have pushed the hammock and even if it had fell due to equipment failure if there was nothing sharp/pointy underneath that massively reduces the risk of injury.

I would take this further if they are not recognising where they went wrong.

my son was significantly injured twice in infant school once a simple trip and bad landing and the second due to faulty equipment. They got rid of the equipment immediately. Another incident occurred where he was given food he was allergic to. The school tried to blame my five year old saying he should have realised (??!!) I would have taken it higher but they did rewrite their risk assessment and put extra measures in place to safe guard.

It sounds like the only witnesses to the incident are the children. Who are very unlikely to be honest if they were all swinging on it, or otherwise causing issues that broke the hammock.

They should have had a bit more supervision. But I certainly wouldn't trust their version of what happened givrn my experience of my kids of a sinilar age who have always done nothing when things break/fall/get lost 🤣🤣 Also seeing the nonsense that cubs in our group got up to when they thought no one was watching!

I literally explained what the instructions were. But you are just even more desperate to prove the school did nothing wrong than the school was.

The activity was to tag your oponents and then they become a hunter. The instructions were to hide and seek and run after/away from each other to achieve/evade tagging (touch on the arm). Teachers were there. Watching them run. In the area they were not supposed to run. What is unclear?

Right. She did not swing though... Is she also responsible for controlling and disciplining other kids? Wtf is wrong with you? If you think it's deplorable a 10yo can't assess a risk about a dodgy hammock what excuse does a whole grown-up H&S trained teacher and forest school leader have saying "in you get"? Get real.

At least 4 that I am aware of as only one parent, all within 2 classes of 30 (and only half the kids do forest school so its not even 60). But technicaly out of a possible 60 kids at least 6.66% of them have needed hospital treatment within 12 months, 3 fractures, 1 other, due to forest school accidents. Seems excessive to me but maybe this is just the norm in schools? Like I said I have no benchmark, just my gut says that feels like something they should actually do a review of.

Everyone was consistent and we can either trust kids or we can't. They can't simultaneously be untrustworthy narrators whose accounts are most likely bullshit because they're young, but old enough to be left to manage complex risk assessments themselves because they're too grown up for supervision.

I think you need to take a massive step back, and think about what you want to achieve here.

Is it

A) where there's a blame there's a claim?
B) is it prevent all other children being hurt?
C) obtain an apology for your child injury

If you answer is A - the result will be that the sessions close down and that's the end of that for all children. If B the only way for that to occur is to close down that activity for all future children. If D apologies can be interpreted as admitting liability - and they are probably advised not to do this, as otherwise the sessions will be closed down for all future children...

Or perhaps gain a Forest School leader qualification, and understand how the sessions are run and the ethos behind it. Then you can ensure that no child ever in your session is ever hurt in anyway....

I can't help thinking that basically school are doing forest school wrong! The point is to teach the children in a risky environment how to mitigate risk.

So the hammock failed the first time, what caused it to fail, how can we stop it failing, etc. if this had been part of the learning the teacher would have stayed with the group round the hammock while they fixed it and tested it, chances are the second fail wouldn't have happened.

But they were understaffed as the teacher had to go back to the fire, the risk assessment hadn't been followed in the first place, so when the second failure happened there was more damage than there should have been.

Are the teachers qualified to teach forest school? If not they should as professionals refused to do it as they don't have the qualifications or experience to deliver it safely.

Forest school should be risky but as safe as possible, accidents will happen but all steps to mitigate them should have been taken. The opportunity should always be taken to try to teach the children how to risk assess and to make risky activities safer.

None of the above I have explained several times what I'm looking for

That's a cop out. It doesn't sound like your dc did anything wrong so why should you withdraw her

Ok devils advocate. My cousin was first aid lead at a local comp. She had loads of injuries in the first term of 1st years (I'm old school so 11/12 year olds) she watched them play and realised they had never played in a playground before.... very middle class, private junior school intake.

When I was that age we'd learnt to fall,to realise when something was about to happen. That swinging in a hammock wasn't the best idea(l). To play with out supervision and look out for potential danger

I broke my foot at work and needed minor surgery to correct it, I just fell over my own foot turning to speak to someone in the office , there was a full investigation, h&s report and RIDDOR were notified, and I'm an adult. This doesn't seem a sufficient response

4 out of 60 sounds like a less than ideal year - but not OMG it should all be stopped numbers. I can think of 2 in my eldest class (total of 25) who fractured arms (wrists?) running in the play ground just in year 6 alone. It's life. You shouldn't cancel playtime or stop kids running around on the back of it. My child had a ridiculous accident playing Chase (the bench won) - it was just that, an accident. I didn't demand the removal of all school benches.

Also, if they are doing an internal review, I'll guarantee you won't be the first person they will be advising!

Pull your kid from Forest School - sounds like it is not for you.