AIBU to say it's difficult to know how to sort finances fairly in my marriage?

[Neocab]

My DH and I have been married for 2 years and still have no idea how to work our finances. We're basically avoiding making important purchases / doing important work on our house at this point because we don't really know how to approach the issue.

AIBU to think it is difficult to work out what is fair here?

I hear from various sources (family, friends and indeed here on Mumsnet) that married couples should:

• combine all finances and treat everything as shared
• OR have a degree of separation but make contributions to shared costs in proportion to income.

We don't do either, and I don't feel it's as simple as that. It is possible that I'm missing something though.

For background: DH is a fair bit older than me. We work in a similar field but he is a fair bit more senior. He earns almost twice what I do.

When we met, he already owned his house outright. I'd been saving to buy my first home and was about at the point where I had a good deposit together. I ended up moving into his house with him instead. Almost immediately afterwards I realised I was pregnant. It was unplanned and a huge shock, and I didn't know whether our still new-ish relationship would be able to handle it, but it did. He proposed shortly afterwards.

We have always maintained separate finances. We have a joint account for household bills, nursery fees, kid stuff, shopping and joint holidays. We each put an equal amount into it each month and if we ever have extra joint expenses, we contribute towards those equally too. I was the one who suggested this at first. I think I felt guilty that I living mortgage and rent-free in a home that I hadn't contributed towards financially at all and was worried about seeming like a sponger. I've always liked the idea of feeling really independent and didn't want to have a lifestyle that I could only afford because a man was topping my finances up.

As time has gone on, though, the situation has become a bit more difficult. For one thing, the equal contributions split means that my DH has been able to save a large amount each month easily, whilst I have been saving at a slower rate. We spend quite a lot on what I see as frivolities - more extravagant food shops and holidays than I would go for myself - but I don't feel I can complain about what my DH wants to spend because I come across as mean, so I keep paying my 50%. In fact until recently I was actually down on the amount of money I had when we got together because we even did the equal split thing when I was on MAT leave and I didn't get much due to being quite new to my job at the time. Don't get me wrong - I'm not penny-pinching massively (after all, I don't have any mortgage or rent to pay!). I can still afford haircuts and meals out with friends etc so I'm not exactly in a situation that requires anything more than the world's smallest violin.

Then there's our house (I still don't feel comfortable calling it 'ours' really - in my head it is his, no matter how much he assures me that he sees it as shared!). It is a bit ramshackle and needs a fair bit of work doing, but I'm stalling on it because I know DH will expect me to pay 50% of everything and I haven't saved enough yet for us to do what we want. There is a possibility that I will have to take out a loan to cover my 50%, which seems a bit ridiculous to me when DH has the money to cover the cost of all of it sitting in the bank. Again though I have this terror of seeming like some sort of freeloader and worry I'm being a selfish arsehole to think of his money as in some way mine too. He has earned that money and I have not.

Some other spanners in the works:

• DH has adult kids. They are homeowners and on their feet, largely thanks to his financial support, and he likes to give them frequent monetary gifts. In my eyes this is none of my business to comment on, but if it were my business, I would obviously still support it completely as it is what a dad should do with his kids. If we combined our finances or shared things differently, it might get in the way of my DH feeling he can give his kids money whenever he wants to, and I would hate that.
• DH is going to be retiring within the next 10 years, whilst I will probably be working for at least 30 (not just the age difference - also differences in pension types). At this point our situations will reverse and I will be bringing in a lot more money than him. I don't know how on earth we will navigate this financially.

What does financially fair even mean in a marriage like this? I have no idea at all. What I do know is that I seem to feel simultaneously guilty and annoyed about any possible arrangement we discuss!

And yes. of course, ideally I would have thought all this through before getting pregnant and before getting married, but I didn't. I am where I am. It was all so fast, so unexpected, and falling in love with someone older was never part of my plan.

Thanks so much for any thoughts. I have no idea what to do and I don't think my DH does either.

YABU - there is a pretty simple way to organise your finances fairly in this marriage

YANBU - it is difficult to know how to sort this out fairly!

You could keep to 50/50 for your day to day expenses but change to proportionate contributions for big or unusual expenses

also it was incredibly unfair keeping the same contributions whilst you were on maternity leave!

This!

My husband earns more than me. We both put in the same amount into a joint account which covers our mortgage, food shopping, joint meals out etc etc. Then we both spend our own money on eg gym membership, day to day costs, socialising. And we both save - we have an ISA each for tax benefits. If we go on holiday or have a big house expense we will just decide on an ad hoc basis where we take the money from. Eg if we are going away for his birthday I would use my savings. If we were buying something big for the house and I didn’t feel I had enough to cover it I would just say and he would cover it.
It works for us. We both pay half the mortgage but if we want to buy something that only really his salary allows us to afford then he tends to cover it. I’m not trying to keep up with his salary and he’s not feeling limited by my lower salary.
We are lucky that we both have high incomes though so both are comfortable and have savings.

The extra thing for you to think about is it sounds like you aren’t building up any equity in the property? And will never own your own home, is that right?

So that is a pretty complicated picture. It's not really something that anyone on mumsnet can say 50/50 or 40/60. It complicated with capital, and income, and his house, and his dc.

To me, it looks like it is pretty unfair at the moment.

But you really need to find a very specialist and expert finance and counselling person who can gently walk both of you through every aspect of this, in a way that results in something fair an equitable and sustainable for the long term.

Not just a finance person, who may look at overall I/E, and certainly not just a counsellor who may not grasp the financial complexities.

Is his house protected or would you get half in the event of divorce? I would be concerned about you not building up equity in a property with the arrangement you have now. Do you like the house? Just trying to figure out if moving elsewhere would be better so you didn't have to finance renovations and it could be a joint owned home? Though I can see he might want to protect this for his DC. Do you have wills and what do they say?
Otherwise I think the important thing is that you are both happy with whatever you agree. My DP and I have separate finances (paying 50/50 into joint account for joint expenses) and I end up with much less each month but I am happy with this as it seems fair to me even though I am sure others would think it unfair
When he retires what will his income be like then? Will you still be the one left with less? Surely it would be nice for you to retire sooner so you could enjoy some time together so could you plan for that together?
Not clear if you have actually discussed it and neither of you are sure what is best or if you haven't actually had a discussion about it?

When you have a child you become vulnerable. I get how this started but it's time to change the record from Miss Independent and start being realistic about what's fair and realistic, and at the minute it's not. You're a married couple, not housemates.

Also why is he allowing his wife and child live in a ramshackle house that he could easily afford to fix, while he gives his grown kids cash handouts? Honestly he's sounding like a bit of a tit to let this continue and you sound quite uncomfortable to raise the fact you can't afford half of a new roof (or whatever) with the man you're married to - that's a bigger concern really.
If it feels like his house, would you consider moving so it could be your family home together?
I'm not sure if it matters as you're married (IANAL!!) but are you in the deeds of the house and are you his beneficiary to any death in service benefits etc?

You really need to just be brave and say you would like to talk about money.

If you paid equally on mat leave why would he not pay equally while retired? He’s been planning for retirement his whole working life while mat leave was a shock. This is not a fair set up. I’d divorce before I went into debt so I could pay 50% of work on a house when married. Do not go into debt. Talk to him about money, start saying no to expensive things, say I am going to need to pay less into the joint account, I can’t fund these things. You are living like we both earn the same, you need to live to my budget if you want me to pay 50%.

We have a joint account for household bills, nursery fees, kid stuff, shopping and joint holidays. We each put an equal amount into it each month and if we ever have extra joint expenses, we contribute towards those equally too

Why are you putting an equal amount into this, when he earns twice as much as you? How would he respond if you suggested a 1/3 and 2/3 split?

Forget your 'guilt' and independence. You're a joined family.

If you are in an equal relationship (regardless of who earns the money) you should both be able to have equal savings and equal pension contributions. Or you should view his 'savings' as a shared asset - which legally they are. It is ridiculous that you would save up from less income to pay towards the cost of home improvements.

I don't know whether this is his 'concept' or whether it is something you have suggested and have got tied into?

You are living like we both earn the same, you need to live to my budget if you want me to pay 50%.

This is exactly the line to take if he gets his arse in his hands about a fairer split - and frankly if he does, run.

This is pretty complicated I would think of it this way dividing things into income, capital expenses and inheritance.
Income - I don't think it's right that you had to contribute when you were on mat leave for taking care of his child. This is a massive red flag. What's most likely is that he doesn't consider your non-financia contribution to his new family as of any value. You would be better to split this proportional to salary, if you are not putting everything in one pot, because I am guessing that your career took a hit and you're also picking up all the childcare after nursery?
Capital - are you on the house deeds? It may be the case in the event of a divorce it would be considered an asset that belongs exclusively to him as it was acquired entirely before the marriage. Therefore you shouldn't really be giving any money to improving its condition. If you are on the house deeds, are you joint tenants or tenants in common ie. do you own half the property jointly with him, where it goes directly to you on his death, or do you each own 50% with the ability to appoint whoever gets your share after you die? This is really important especially with dependent and adult children from a previous marriage. If you are just living in his house and haven't been married too long I doubt you have any claim upon it.
Inheritance - if he dies first and doesn't have a will you want to make sure you are able to stay on the house afterwards, without the estate being able to sell it, this is called interest in possession. Equally, if you die first you want to make sure your young child is provided for.
I urge you both to see a solicitor and discuss this, getting everything in writing and communicating to the adult kids about your intentions. Funny, I think you will end up being very magnanimous when his income goes down at retirement, you should really open your eyes and see he isn't the type to reciprocate, sorry.

The only part that is complicated is that he has children he doesn’t share with you. If they did not exist, then you should be pooling your resources and getting equal amounts of fun money.

Since they do exist, it would be fair for him to earmark a portion of his assets from before the marriage for them.

Otherwise, the same idea remains. He chose to get married and have a child. You are absorbing the financial consequences of procreation. Women lose money off potential earnings when they have children, even if they remain high earners. You should not be overextending yourself to pay half. He should be compensating you for your losses. The easiest way to do this is to pool your resources, at least going forward.

I generally prefer shared finances. But for this situation, I think keeping finances separate but contributing in proportion to your income is fairest. He should also transfer some savings to you in recognition that he didn’t financially contribute to your baby’s care which you provided by going on maternity leave. Put that money in your pension.

Oh, and a couple of other things, are you the named beneficiary of his pension, named on any death in service benefits and are there any other assets? A solicitor will need to go through these too make sure you ask the questions.

You need a financial advisor. Putting in equal amounts while he earns double is inappropriate. Feeling financially vulnerable on maternity leave while the child's father draws a big salary is inappropriate. Even considering using your savings to pay for a house in another person's name is inappropriate. Something feels very off about this situation.

His kids complicate things, you need to have a conversation about ownership of the house and how he wants to write his will. I would prioritise this over all the other financial decisions, any will he had before you married will now be invalid. Once you settle that I’d have thought the rest will resolve, you’re in for the long haul, it’s doesn’t make sense to have complicated and unequal finances, you need to work out priorities and tackle them together, what are you saving for, are you on track, can you afford your long-term goals with your current day to day spending?

Thank you for the replies so far, everyone.
To clear up some things:

• I'm not on the house deeds. DH is reluctant to do this because he is concerned that if we ever get divorced, he will end up losing the home he worked so hard for and being screwed for retirement. (The house is very much at the low end of the market - perhaps worth about £130,000 - so not a house that could be sold to allow two people to then buy their own homes comfortably.) I understand and respect his position on that. However I also worry that if we ever got divorced and I had sunk all my savings into home improvements for a house that I have no right to any share of, I would also be screwed.
• My DH has no will. I have asked him several times for us to do wills but he says he doesn't want to - that he expects me to inherit everything and that he informally trusts me to see his wishes through (that I get the house and that the rest of his assets are equally divided between me and each of his kids). When I suggested that we should formalise stuff, he suggested this was a sign of me saying I would not follow his wishes.
• My DH isn't worried about protecting a stake in his property for his adult kids. This is because he reasons that a) they've had loads of money from him over the years and b) they will be the sole beneficiaries of their mum's will (she has inherited several properties recently and is now a multi-millionaire). I suppose my concern about this is that his adult kids' mum might outlive him by many years, and we never know how care costs etc could eat up that inheritance, and even if they are well-provided for via their mum, perhaps they will still feel pretty upset about not getting a bigger share of their dad's property as well. I worry that I'm being left to navigate that if anything happens to DH.
• I have no idea whether I would be the beneficiary of his pension, death in service payments etc if anything happened to him.

The more I write, the more stupid I feel, but at the same time the thought of pressing any of these things with him makes me feel sick with guilt because I just keep thinking it's not my business to poke into his affairs. Then again it's not just me who would be impacted if I ended up struggling financially. I worry about our shared kid.

@timbitstimbytes , we share child care really evenly so that isn't an issue. Both work full-time. My career has actually improved since being with DH as he supported me to go for a promotion that requires travel and he made it possible for me to do this, eg by looking after our kid solo for days on end when required. Other than that, your points stand, but I just want to make sure I'm not painting an unfair picture.

I do feel valued and loved by DH, and I think this situation is more about thoughtlessness and burying our heads in the sand than about anyone trying to be unfair. I also think we perhaps both have personal insecurities that are impacting on our decision-making (him that his much younger wife might not always want to stick around, and me that I don't deserve the life I've now got in the first place).

(For the record: I do very much want to stick around, and think I'm pretty clear-eyed about ageing, care needs and other potential horrors that could lie ahead for me as the wife of someone older... but I can see why he might worry about the future.)

God, what a stingy, ugly man.

You're over thinking this and are far too in your head/being nice. Get practical.

Firstly as said above - The house , is your name on the deeds now ? Just because your married doesn’t mean you’ll get half in the event off
Second - Has he made a will - does it include you & child in it (although this can be changed at anytime, idea of where his head is )

I wouldn’t be adding value to his house if you’re not on the deeds now?
I now you look at it as rent free, but he has to put a roof over his child’s & wife’s head

I don’t think it’s very fair you paying 50/50 when he gets much more salary than you.
I’d nip this agreement in the bud from now on
come up with something more fair

This is very complicated and I think you need to think carefully about what your doing here for your own future

Then you cannot pay for the house repairs and you cannot continue funding the lifestyle he wants. You need to save for your own retirement. Tell him this and what your new contribution to the joint account is so you can save too.

Invest your own savings into buying a property that you let out. The rental income you make after paying the mortgage can be used to help fund home improvements of your current home with DH.

So you’ve kept your savings, helped with home improvements, have tenant’s pretty much buying the property for you and should anything go wrong in your marriage at any stage, you have your rental property to move into if needs be.

Do not spend your savings renovating a house that you are not on the deeds of. This is basic. The fact that he expects you to is outrageous.
Also the fact that he helps out his adult children, but then doesn’t fully financially support his wife and new baby during maternity leave would ring alarm bells for me. It’s so stingy and disrespectful of him to have allowed you to pay 50% of bills during this time.

I do feel valued and loved by DH, and I think this situation is more about thoughtlessness and burying our heads in the sand than about anyone trying to be unfair.

That's good.
And yet he won't put you on the deeds but expects you to pay half, he let's the house go into disrepair even though he could fix it and you feel sick at asking him to talk about the financial inequality in your relationship.

Has he told the older children they're not getting anything from the house in his non existent will or do you get to deliver that news to his grieving family and potentially be accused of being a money grabber? Making a will would solve that.
I think it's actually quite odd to twist your desire to formally capture his wishes into 'evidence' you won't carry them out - bizarre and nonsensical.

As PP said, you're being too nice & considering his feelings over financial security for yourself & your child.
The update also reinforced my previous comment that he sounds a bit if a tit.

ShishKofte

I think they should sit down and talk as opposed to her just running- I saw a thread recently where a guy said his girlfriend wanted the split of bills the fair way, and he said he was shocked- cue men saying she was taking the piss and women tearing him to shreds and calling him abusive. I think this is one of the largest differences between men and women and even when the women explained sensibly how it meant she would struggle to live/ she’d have no savings etc etc, the men all said well then she should have studied harder, worked harder, got a better job etc. AND THEN when people said about gender equality- cue laughing etc. I don’t know what the solution is but put with the manosphere etc etc etc you wonder how women and men and men and women coexist at all nowadays, each group feel like the other is fucking them over

The only fair way is to combine everything into one pot and think no more about it. If you are the higher earner and you resent your partner because of this, you shouldn’t be married. If you are the lower earner and you feel guilty about it you need to better value your worth.

Op please protect yourself financially. Love him, care fir him, sure. But right now you are vulnerable. This is only going to get worse. You are responsible for protecting yourself because he is not bothered. He's fine.

Even the men you would least suspect can suddenly pull the rug out from under you. Trust me, I know. I wish I didn't.

Protect your financial future. This is on you.