AIBU to say it's difficult to know how to sort finances fairly in my marriage?

[Neocab]

My DH and I have been married for 2 years and still have no idea how to work our finances. We're basically avoiding making important purchases / doing important work on our house at this point because we don't really know how to approach the issue.

AIBU to think it is difficult to work out what is fair here?

I hear from various sources (family, friends and indeed here on Mumsnet) that married couples should:

• combine all finances and treat everything as shared
• OR have a degree of separation but make contributions to shared costs in proportion to income.

We don't do either, and I don't feel it's as simple as that. It is possible that I'm missing something though.

For background: DH is a fair bit older than me. We work in a similar field but he is a fair bit more senior. He earns almost twice what I do.

When we met, he already owned his house outright. I'd been saving to buy my first home and was about at the point where I had a good deposit together. I ended up moving into his house with him instead. Almost immediately afterwards I realised I was pregnant. It was unplanned and a huge shock, and I didn't know whether our still new-ish relationship would be able to handle it, but it did. He proposed shortly afterwards.

We have always maintained separate finances. We have a joint account for household bills, nursery fees, kid stuff, shopping and joint holidays. We each put an equal amount into it each month and if we ever have extra joint expenses, we contribute towards those equally too. I was the one who suggested this at first. I think I felt guilty that I living mortgage and rent-free in a home that I hadn't contributed towards financially at all and was worried about seeming like a sponger. I've always liked the idea of feeling really independent and didn't want to have a lifestyle that I could only afford because a man was topping my finances up.

As time has gone on, though, the situation has become a bit more difficult. For one thing, the equal contributions split means that my DH has been able to save a large amount each month easily, whilst I have been saving at a slower rate. We spend quite a lot on what I see as frivolities - more extravagant food shops and holidays than I would go for myself - but I don't feel I can complain about what my DH wants to spend because I come across as mean, so I keep paying my 50%. In fact until recently I was actually down on the amount of money I had when we got together because we even did the equal split thing when I was on MAT leave and I didn't get much due to being quite new to my job at the time. Don't get me wrong - I'm not penny-pinching massively (after all, I don't have any mortgage or rent to pay!). I can still afford haircuts and meals out with friends etc so I'm not exactly in a situation that requires anything more than the world's smallest violin.

Then there's our house (I still don't feel comfortable calling it 'ours' really - in my head it is his, no matter how much he assures me that he sees it as shared!). It is a bit ramshackle and needs a fair bit of work doing, but I'm stalling on it because I know DH will expect me to pay 50% of everything and I haven't saved enough yet for us to do what we want. There is a possibility that I will have to take out a loan to cover my 50%, which seems a bit ridiculous to me when DH has the money to cover the cost of all of it sitting in the bank. Again though I have this terror of seeming like some sort of freeloader and worry I'm being a selfish arsehole to think of his money as in some way mine too. He has earned that money and I have not.

Some other spanners in the works:

• DH has adult kids. They are homeowners and on their feet, largely thanks to his financial support, and he likes to give them frequent monetary gifts. In my eyes this is none of my business to comment on, but if it were my business, I would obviously still support it completely as it is what a dad should do with his kids. If we combined our finances or shared things differently, it might get in the way of my DH feeling he can give his kids money whenever he wants to, and I would hate that.
• DH is going to be retiring within the next 10 years, whilst I will probably be working for at least 30 (not just the age difference - also differences in pension types). At this point our situations will reverse and I will be bringing in a lot more money than him. I don't know how on earth we will navigate this financially.

What does financially fair even mean in a marriage like this? I have no idea at all. What I do know is that I seem to feel simultaneously guilty and annoyed about any possible arrangement we discuss!

And yes. of course, ideally I would have thought all this through before getting pregnant and before getting married, but I didn't. I am where I am. It was all so fast, so unexpected, and falling in love with someone older was never part of my plan.

Thanks so much for any thoughts. I have no idea what to do and I don't think my DH does either.

YABU - there is a pretty simple way to organise your finances fairly in this marriage

YANBU - it is difficult to know how to sort this out fairly!

Your married, this seems mad to me. Just put it all in one account. Its what Ive always done and it works great. We have both always considered all money, our money.

You are extremely vulnerable. I have been married twice and in both marriages we just shared our money. With my husband now, we both have a little frivolous spending fund into which we put a but of moneybeach month. This lets us indulge in a little impulse/guilt free spending without ruining our budgeting. We have savings that are shared. Some of these are in different names but we absolutely consider them joint assets. My husband earns much more than me and at various times I've worked part time or been a sahm. This hasn't changed a thing, all money is ours and shared.

Sounds like it would be better for both of you to sell the current place and buy a different place together. Tell him you want to live somewhere you feel invested in and have an interest in. Then it’s your joint home. It’s good he feels he has already sorted his children as that would be a complication.
If housing is that cheap near you and you’re working full time it should be doable.
Then. Share everything. As a married couple.

I owned a house when we got married and earnt more. DH ivertook me within a couole of years.

We had a prenup. All the equity on marriage was mine. Therafter capital growth was equally split. We paid half.

Then DC came along and DH paid everything even when I went back to work after seven years but by then he was earning far far more than I and my money was pin money. As my earnings increased I took on my car, minor furnishings, childrwn's clubs and clothes. Grown up now. I pay half the food, half the cleaner, my car, sky and broadband.

Personally, I wouldn’t be in a relationship where money wasn’t fully shared. Theres nothing in your scenario that would change my mind.

I’d want a shared budget with everyone’s income going in the top, both people having the same amount of free spends and saving the same amount each month. The gifts to the adult kids would just go in as an expense line at the amount he is happy with.

I’d also say that you want a meeting with a solicitor to talk about wills and being on the deeds. You being on the deeds is unlikely to change the divorce position, and you won’t necessarily inherit everything when he dies without a will. You also might not be able to give away some of your share to his kids if you have care needs/capacity issues/requirement for benefits as it’d be deprivation of capital, and so his kids might miss out even if you have the best of intentions.

ETA: this is how my household works and I earn 3x what DH earns. I don’t want to compromise my lifestyle because he’s a lower earner, so it’s all joint and we both live the same lifestyle.

This 🤷‍♀️

His house sounds like a pita anyway if it needs a lot of work.

Once you are married ( or at least after a couple of years) all assets are shared even if he bought the house so some of your issues are technically irrelevant

I agree to moving home to a shared place for your future sanity

given the other aspects - he has more now, you have more later , I think a shared pot with the same “free money “ is better

i would agree upfront an amount that is ring fenced towards supporting his children - so for example if he brings in 3 k he might put 1k aside for the kids, 1 k onto to the shared pot and 1k spending and you on say 1.5k would do .5 into shared pot and 1k spending

you would need to agree carefully whats shared pot and what’s your spend

and echo PP - you need to have wills sorted and you should be open about what’s in them

and whilst you do wills - do PoA

Marriage is supposed to be an equal partnership and I dont really understand people who wont share their resources. It shows that both of you feel insecure in this relationship.

You need to make this fairer on you. Maybe you pay into the shared account based on your relative earnings - so if he's paid twice what you get he pays 2/3rds of your expenses. This also applies when you are earning and he has a pension so you'll pay more then.

Ive voted yabu for continuing to pay so much towards a house and lifestyle while he refuses to have an adult conversation and make adult plans.

Assuming he knows that you earn a lot less, hes a disgrace for continuing with this uneven split. Especially the maternity leave.

I can't fathom the mat leave point and it makes me really sad :( Where did he think you were getting the money from, and did you bring it up with him? I did 50/50 with my husband before we had kislds, but as soon as I was on mat leave, we moved to a joint account. I know your situation is more complicated but PPs above have some good ideas.

The work to the house should be paid for by him - presumably any equity in the house would be split between all kids with you having a life interest in the house until you die. If your DH pays for all the work, then any enhancement in value goes to all the kids who will inherit equally. If you pay, you are paying to his kids’ inheritance at the expense of your own. you need some financial advice that covers the basis - I’d go 50:50 if in the long term he will have less income to balance out the current and historic position.

(You also need to consider who pays for care, if you want to keep working)

No, as per my update he says he wants me to have the house if he dies before me. No lifetime interest stuff. He then wants me and the kids to each have an equal share of his other assets. However, he hasn't formally put this in a will so I don't know whether his kids could contest this. It also means I have no legal protection if he should, for example, choose to divorce me, as my understanding is I would have no claim on the house at all then given it was an asset he brought into the marriage (mortgage was paid off before we met).

Oh dear OP - no wonder it feels overwhelming as it is a complicated scenario.

I think the fact he has adult children that he likes to gift money too is probably what makes it harder, and then when he retires it will add another factor into the mix too.

The fact he plans to retire soon and has adult children whilst you have a newborn and still plan on working for another 30 years implies there is quite a large age gap so it’s likely you will end up as his career at some point too (which will no doubt save him and his sons a fair amount of money too).

Normally I would say everything should be in a joint pot but it’s not that simple here, but the current set up of 50/50 is certainly not fair.

I think you definitely need to talk to him about how he envisions the finances working when he retires. Do you know how much he’s going to get?

Also does he have life insurance that has you down as the beneficiary? I think this is very important considering what you’ve said about your concerns about inheritance/ people coming looking for assets and money after his death.

You have to protect yourself and your joint child.

As an aside, when I met my husband I moved into house (as opposed to getting somewhere together) and I STILL feel like it’s “his” house even though we’ve been together for 16 years! It’s definitely psychological 🤣

Agreed! Plus he doesn’t want to put you on the deeds on a house worth £130k - I mean, that’s a very very inexpensive house given UK averages…..

You are in a really vulnérable position, and only the fact that you are married gives you any protection.

Earnings and income : fair in a marriage is either all in the same pot / joint account and equal access to it, or proportional contributions relative to income. If that still leaves you with drastically different amounts of ‘fun’ money then I personally would push for all in / joint account. But that does depend on you having similar attitudes to spending, and a willingness to be generous to your partner.

Wills - your DH is being very selfish in not making a will. Dying intestate means a longer wait for the estate to be settled, and more legal costs. It’s a messy process to go through. Are his older children aware that he’s planning for everything to default to you ? Nothing for his children or grandchildren except what you choose to pass on? That’s asking for trouble.

Capital / property - you are barely married, have a young baby - and he’s already planning how he can screw you over in a divorce ? Charming. Either you are in this together, as equals who are equally important - or you are not. He needs to trust you, and he clearly doesn’t. I don’t understand why you are being so ‘understanding’ and accepting about this.

Marriage is always a leap of faith. We tie ourselves financially, legally and emotionally to another person and both commit to doing our absolute best to make it work out for both of us, and for any children. This requires trust, honesty, generosity and a genuine desire for the other person to be protected. Otherwise what’s the point ?

bring independent inside a marriage and with a child is different to being ‘independent’ as a single person. It means having a voice and a say in how your joint affairs are arranged, irrespective of who earns or owns what. It means standing up for yourself (and your child), making sure that you count just as much as the other person does. It means making sure that both of you have your needs met within the relationship. Compromise, kindness, generosity and respect. You seem to believe that because you earn less, you don’t deserve for your husband to share his wealth / assets / life with you ? Are you prepared to be the junior partner just because you are younger and earn less ?

We've had a really good conversation this morning about these issues. Posting on here and seeing the replies helped me to feel a bit more confident.

He's agreed to formalising things in wills (wants me to have the house and most of its contents if he dies before me and any pension-related income, then me and each kid to have an equal share in his other assets). He will check out named beneficiary arrangements for his pension too.

We are still unsure what to do about ensuring that any money I put into the property now is protected for me should we divorce. DH is very worried about being turfed out of his home in retirement, which I really do get. He suggested that we keep a record of anything I pay towards home improvements and that if we were to ever split, I could get that back plus interest. However I've got no idea whether I can make this legally enforceable. I need to get proper legal advice really.

In terms of splitting of holidays etc, he says he is happy to pay more towards treat type things like this and to make this more in line with income proportions, whilst day to day bills keep being split 50/50. This was what the first couple of posters suggested and seems quite fair to me.

The MAT leave thing... hm. I hear the concerns some of you have raised about this. It really was me pushing for an equal split at that time. Our relationship was still new, we weren't married at that point, and I was so horrified by the thought of any sort of dependence on him. I screwed myself over there really.

We could buy a property together and have thought about this but have decided against for the moment. Not something we want to do in this market and we are very happy with the house. Perhaps down the road.

Not all resolved by any means but there's been a step forward today and I do feel a bit less stuck thanks to this thread.

I'm married to someone older, but we only have joint children. He is very on the ball with finances and wills. Unfortunately I'm not well enough to work, so there is only his income to deal with.
Your DH sounds a little naive about his approach to what happens when he dies. Without a will, everything will come to you as his wife (I believe!)
You both need to get some financial advice and possibly some counselling to work through this. It's not easy to talk about money but it will hopefully make things smoother for the future.
FWIW I don't think you should be paying 50% of costs when you are on a lower salary. Whilst he has paid off the house, effectively that just lowers the outgoings for both of you each month.

This is great - really positive! Just got to see it through now. Read @Wofflewaffle post above if you are wavering - YA definitely NBU.

I've found this to be a really thoughtful and helpful post. Thank you.

On the planning to screw me over in a divorce point: I wouldn't put it that way. It's more that we have drifted along with the default position and not taken action to change it - eg with my name not being on the property. The only reason this issue has come up is more me worrying about what would happen if I put my savings into this house and later we got divorced. I suppose you could say I'm being the cynical one there. I also don't get how me trying to protect my financial interests is somehow savvy or worthy but him trying to do the same is him planning to screw me over.

But I get what you're saying about marriage as a leap of faith and about how independence looks different in the context of marriage.

Op is your deposit now gone on the house you were saving towards buying yourself?

I'd honestly work on building that back up and keep that for yourself in case you need to bail out and end up with nothing and have to start over - at least you'd have your deposit then to find a place to live

NO WAY would i be paying a penny towards improvements on his house!

I earn about half what husband does too - i pay proportional for mortgage & Bills and i keep the rest of my money!

He pays for nursery & kids clothes & stuff and the car

I help pay for holidays

I think you are in a very vulnarable situation and something needs to change!

I can see how you have got into this position. If you want to continue to contribute 50/50 then please say no to things you cannot afford (including being able to continue saving) and then he can choose to pay more, not do it or do it alone if he wants something expensive. You should expect however in this case that this 50/50 continues into his retirement and make that clear.
I would refuse to contribute to home investments if I am not in the deeds. If he can afford it himself why is he so keen on your contribution given he needs it to be ‘his’? I get his fear of losing his home in a divorce so I would continue to save and invest in a rental property instead so you also have housing security in case of a separation.
Just because he says he will leave you his home, he will almost certainly die first and could leave it to his children in a will and you wouldn’t know until too late. Your will should leave everything to your child only otherwise if the worst happens to you your assets inherited by your DH would likely end up eventually being split four ways. Protect yourself and your baby.

Your circumstances with a big retirement age difference, stepchildren that are adults plus him owning a house outright make it complicated.

We have never shared finances and it’s worked perfectly for almost 30 years but for complete transparency the amounts post bills that we had were quite substantial. Plus only a 2 year age gap means same stage of life, It did mean a lot of money movement over the years but it’s been to our advantage. DH covered maternity leave but I did have a very good maternity package from work.

@anyolddinosaur not insecure but we both invest and while risky especially in the past they were our decisions to make and as our money no consultation needed. We did this before we met.

It doesn’t have to be complicated. Both put 50% of your income into the shared pot and both of you keep the other 50% to save or do what you want.

If you jointly instructed a solicitor and asked them to put the infant and its welfare to the head of the queue, what plan do you think might be suggested?

There's your answer.