Parenting Professor says that she supports smacking children

[ThisAmpleCritic]

Quote:
Prof Ellie Lee, a family and parenting researcher at the University of Kent …supports the use of smacking, said: "It would be great if we could just be nice to children and think they would just be nice back. But the reality of it is, is that in order for children to understand the rules of society, and to learn how to behave in a way that is moral, and that is good, we have to have boundaries, and boundaries have to be backed up."

AIBU to think this is a disgusting attitude and her credentials should be challenged? Children deserve protection from
violence and aggression from their caregivers. Why should they not be given the same rights as adults, who are free to test boundaries without fear of physical assault?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2eyke83yz9o

It’s an awful message certainly, but that headline is patently ridiculous.
Lower GCSE grades??

Yes, I agree the implication in the headline is not really indicative of the studies findings…
but that’s the only point of Prof Lee’s that I agree with!

The study is complete gumpf:

"The study was observational, meaning researchers compiled results from questionnaires completed by families of children who had been physically punished.

However, their analysis could not prove a direct link between smacking and the results, as other factors might have influenced a child's life over the research period."

I guarantee there are other significant factors at play (educational level of parents / socio-economic class), which mean smacking and lower GCSE results are more likely.

Boundaries just absolutely don’t need to be backed up by violence.
It’s ironic she talks about the of society where the social norm is we don’t go around hitting people, but the way we introduce children into these social norms and unspoken societal rules is … by hitting them?

I just had a quick Google of her and I get the impression her ideas generally fly against accepted views on parenting. No doubt she will be enjoying the publicity her view on corporal punishment will be generating.
Justifying physically assaulting a child is morally bereft.

No, she's speaking the truth. The amount of people who plead, bargain, negotiate etc with children and come on here confused about why their children verbally, and sometimes physically, abuse them is proof that this insane trend of being friends with children, instead of parents, is just a disaster.

I have many thoughts about this. The BBC regularly publish things like this without applying any critical thinking. It's lazy journalism.

So the UCL group have clearly been funded by a pressure group to give a gloss of respectability to some basic investigative work that shows something self evident: parents from lower socio-economic groups with less education have fewer tools in their parenting toolbox and so are more likely to resort to violence as a punishment. Those same (poor and badly educated) parents are also likely to have children who do worse than average at academic exams. The trouble is the parenting and the smacking is a symptom just like the GCSE results.

Then because the BBC likes to pretend it's evenhanded it gets another academic who is paid by a different pressure group to say something suitably controversial that appeals to those same parents.

Finally the OP posts a link on Mumsnet, we all click to read it and the BBC are happy.

Obviously smacking children is wrong and unnecessary but a) it's impossible to police and b) there will still be children who are underperforming at school because of inadequate parenting but there is very little money to improve parenting skills and as happened with SureStart the middle classes will be the ones who make use of the resources available and so the attainment gap will continue to expand.

You can be a parent without hitting them. You can have strong boundaries without hitting them. There are plenty of fab kids in the world who know how to behave but have never been hit.

You can be an effective parent without hitting. All it does is make children withdraw from their parents - who’s going to engage with someone they’re scared of? It’s illegal to assault an adult. Why isn’t it illegal to assault a child?

Of course. But, I have seen MNers state that even a raised voice is abuse. It's ludicrous. Not all kids respond to gentle coaxing etc. Some kids have different red lines that need implemented. It doesn't need taken off the table for everyone. It needs an individual approach and to blanket it as 'abuse' in every situation is absurd.

I’ve never smacked my children, or inflicted any cruel or physical punishments.

But disciplining children without it is very hard. You take a toy, so what? Their rooms are all like Hamleys these days. What else is there? They just don’t care. There’s no ultimate deterrence; parents aren’t seen as a little bit scary any more. There’s no invisible line they don’t dare cross. Kids control the parents now. And they’re more violent than ever, oddly.

Personally, I make my kids know that the luxuries they have are rewards for fulfilling their duties. Those duties are age dependent home errands and individualised education oriented goals. They are also highly praised for things that show support to their family and community.

That means that most things they have can be taken away if they stop fulfilling those duties and they will get a lot less if they choose not to support wider family and community. When it gets to the point that I take things away, I take everything away apart from necessities for school.

We have got to that point once so far with the eldest when he was a younger teen.

I had to do a lot of nipping in the bud with him. Lots of leaving places and going home if he pushed too far. Insisting on listening the first time. The others have been easier in that respect, partly because he sets some expectations.

Smacking is awful and I don’t want to ever return to it.

Equally, I wish we were more honest about the fact that without it, we are quite powerless.

I recognise those may appear to be two contradictory things but I do feel a lot of the time like I have absolutely no way to stop my children doing things than to repeatedly tell them to stop doing things.

You took absolutely everything away from them when they were 3 because they ‘understood their privileges’ at that age?

I teach in a country where parents routinely smack children. They get very high academic results and poor behaviour or social disorder is almost zero. I think we have to stop labelling parenting as abuse and comparing “assault” of adults with a tap on a child’s hand. Lower socioeconomic parents who beat up their kids are absolutely not the same as thoughtful parents who sometimes smack and the poor results low socioeconomic kids get are part of a pattern of bad parenting not one thing, and anyway not every kid is A star material and we don’t 100% know if this is nature or nurture. But on MN a DH that gives you a funny look once in 40 years is abusive so what hope is there of a balanced view on here? British parents and misguided views on what is and isn’t ‘safeguarding’ have turned kids into mini tyrants who can do no wrong and do whatever they want while some parents fear the consequences of actually parenting. This is no good thing because look at what society is turning into. Look at what adults we are producing. Look at the economy.

Absolutely. And what’s more we are seeing far more violence toward teachers, parents and classmates. ‘Modelling behaviour’ indeed…

I don't do it, but I don't think that the odd smack is a big deal if it works

British parents and misguided views on what is and isn’t ‘safeguarding’ have turned kids into mini tyrants who can do no wrong and do whatever they want while some parents fear the consequences of actually parenting. This is no good thing because look at what society is turning into. Look at what adults we are producing. Look at the economy.

Absolutely this!! Just look at how many threads are running at this very moment where teenagers are beating up and disrespecting their parents all day 🤯

I disagree with hitting anyone, particularly children, but it seems the study found parents' with lower educational attainment were more likely to hit their children who are also more likely to have lower educational attainment, rather then smacking causes GCSE failure.

It’s illegal to use force on an adult or to falsely imprison them. Are you against picking up or physically handling children or telling them they have to stay in their room?

Generally, taking decisions on behalf of children and making them do things would be coercive control of an adult.

None of that condones smacking, but illegality as regards adults is a silly argument.

Hitting children is never ok in any circumstances at all. Loads of children behave well, respect others, show kindness and empathy without being hit.

Picking up the point of “smacking being impossible to police”, I disagree.

In Scotland, it’s not a police matter immediately. Child services are informed after a disclosure and the family are supported, not criminalised, if it really is just a smack. Obviously, great physical harm is escalated and obviously physical abuse of children still happens, but smacking is not commonplace.

When I taught in England, I had just about weekly disclosures of smacking/being hit in a class. In Scotland, I’ve had two in 5 years.

Yet Scottish classroom violence is much higher.

They do but this takes a long time to teach and without a sort of ‘final sanction’ before they really understand bribery or the link between an action and a consequence it can be very difficult. Mostly, all you have is removing them from a situation and that’s not always possible.

In what way do you want her credentials challenged? Do tou doubt that she has the qualifications thwy say?
Im in scotland, and i supported the ban on smacking, but there are very few things in academia that have universal agreement. I have no issues in others doing research and challenging general consensus, otherwise smacking would never have been banned here in the first place. You dont have to agree with her, but shes entitled to her views, and her qualifications.