Parenting Professor says that she supports smacking children

[ThisAmpleCritic]

Quote:
Prof Ellie Lee, a family and parenting researcher at the University of Kent …supports the use of smacking, said: "It would be great if we could just be nice to children and think they would just be nice back. But the reality of it is, is that in order for children to understand the rules of society, and to learn how to behave in a way that is moral, and that is good, we have to have boundaries, and boundaries have to be backed up."

AIBU to think this is a disgusting attitude and her credentials should be challenged? Children deserve protection from
violence and aggression from their caregivers. Why should they not be given the same rights as adults, who are free to test boundaries without fear of physical assault?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2eyke83yz9o

That’s not what I’m saying.

I am saying both are damaging. If you’re having to use a lot of physical force because your toddler is so wound up, that’s got the potential to be dangerous.

Smacking is not something I’m ever going to condone but I don’t think wrestling and manhandling a toddler is really something o am comfortable with either.

But mine is being a fucking nightmare at the moment and it’s possible not all toddlers are quite so forceful when angry. Mine is, though. All I can say is trust me: to get her to get off a climbing frame and keep her off it you’d have to rip her off and hold her down with a LOT of force.

So then you would use physical force to drag, push and pull and hold back.

I don’t see that as greatly different tbh. Maybe because I know just how much force it would take to contain her.

But surely that’s physically abusive? You wouldn’t do that to an adult, etc

To minimise it. There's a reason nobody would ever say "did he smack you?" to a woman suffering domestic violence.

Oh, the terrible twos. Calm and consistent then. I assume her brother is older since she is just two? Was he hurt and upset when she pushed him off? I think a bit of physical pushing and shoving between siblings is normal behaviour at that age so would see this more as a 'hmm, she's getting a bit tired, time to deflect' so assuming he was OK I'd just say 'OK, who wants a snack before we go home?' And get her off the climbing frame that way. If her older brother was hurt I'd concentrate on him and check he was alright and offer him a snack. That would no doubt get her to come down and demand a snack at which point I'd say 'you have to give DBro a cuddle and say sorry you pushed him first' and once she'd done that give her a snack. If she refused to apologise then I'd say 'OK. Right DBro, time to go home' and walk away with your son. At which point a 2 year old will either run after you and apologise or start having a tantrum. If she has a tantrum keep walking with your son until you're a decentish distance away but can keep an eye on her then wait for her calm down but chat to your son about other stuff so he is getting the attention. Once she calms down and comes to you then tell her to cuddle and apologise again then snack and home.

Tantrums are developmentally normally and are a way of testing boundaries. But she can't hurt her brother so you endure the tantrum and stick to that boundary. Most toddlers will cave before a determined parent will, and if they don't you are bigger than them and can pick them up and can carry them home. Don't shout, don't negotiate, just be boring and calm as you repeatedly hold the line.

My toddler head but me in the face so hard she broke my nose. The lump is still there. My other child kicked me in the foot hard enough my toenail went right back and went black. And one of them scratched me in the eye to the extent it was bleeding. All whilst screaming at me. It fucking hurt. I’ve never smacked them but I think a LOT of people forget how strong, persistent and aggressive 2-4 year olds actually can be.

While I do understand this argument I think a slap or smack is with an open palm and hit is with a closed fist.

I would not do either to a child FYI. (Or an adult!) But that is the distinction, I think.

Someone’s forgotten what this stage is like. How old are your kids now?

I know that there is a lot of bad practice in reality but I would hope that those with that sort of responsibility for an adult would have been trained in appropriate restraint techniques. It's not ideal but sometimes it's necessary.

I once had to drive the thankfully short trip back from a supermarket as I could not get my then two year old in the car seat. Just wasn’t happening.

Mine are strong and rage makes them stronger. It isn’t just the strength. It’s the way they can twist and contort and you can’t use too much force to contain them because they are toddlers and they are little and you could really hurt them!

Wow did your kids really go to a nursery that like? It sounds absolutely horrendous. I've worked in a number of nurseries and preschools and no adult has ever behaved like that.

Why would I claim that? There are abusive parents all over, plenty of people here are happily cheering about how smacking children is needed.
Picking up a small child up and squeezing them “harder than necessary” because the parent has utter lost control of their emotions is not remotely something to aim for and is just shit parenting.
I’m not sure your point, of course parents have taken their aggression out physically on their children but it’s not acceptable behaviour.

Agree, the thrashing is wild and absolutely not just a kid crying and wriggling about a bit. Seriously, with mine it was like performing an exorcism - strangers (usually older ones with adult kids or the clearly child free) would look on shocked at their screaming and thrashing. You can’t physically clip them into a car seat or buggy, they will fight you tooth and nail not to get in, while clawing at your face and kicking as hard as they can.

Thankfully neither of my kids attacked me past the age of 2/3, but they fight with each other now and I remind the oldest that self defence is perfectly fine. She’s allowed to protect herself if her brother attacks her, and vice versa.

A punch is when you strike someone with a closed fist. A hit doesn't have to be a closed fist, it's just to strike something. You can hit a ball with a bat but you can't punch a ball with a bat because a punch means to hit with a closed fist.

Well i certainly think we have got parenting wrong in the last 25 years. So so many badly behaved children , so many indulged entitled youngsters, young adults that can't accept others have a point of view that may differ from theirs and have no respect for anyone, young adults that can't function. That is down to parents not parenting but wanting to be their childs "friend", parents not laying down lines in the sand, parents making 1001 excuses for their child being bloody wild.
Obviously the parenting of the last quarter of a century has not worked so it is maybe time to try something else. No child should be battered but they need structure, boundries and firmness.

I have never smacked my kids. They have firm boundaries and they are lovely, polite, well rounded teenagers. You can have boundaries without resorting to abusive behaviour. Why should smacking be accepted in the home when it isn't ok in schools or the workplace?

It’s terminology that people attach meaning to, even though it’s for the same thing. A punch would be a closed fist.
Let’s face it when children are aggressive towards eachother or an adult it’s really described as “smacking” and almost always described as “hitting”. When it’s an adult to a child the reverse is true because smacking is a softer more socially acceptable word for the same thing, which is hitting.

Likewise, I see where you're coming from but do you think anyone would say a woman was "smacked" by an abusive partner?

I don’t know … I wouldn’t personally describe a pinch as a smack.

Maybe there is regional variation.

Yes!!! This post and the one at 1657 by Walkyrie sum it up perfectly.

I think, for a professor to make a claim that ignores fairly expansive prior research on the subject lacks a professional approach.

We know that corporal punishment does little to improve behaviour (hence why adults who use it keep having to use it - the behaviour doesn't stop). We know that physical abuse has a negative impact on children's physical and mental health.

There's a lot of solid, peer reviewed research she seems to think she can ignore to share her own unsubstantiated opinions.

The thing with the smacking debate that I find endlessly confusing is everyone agrees smacking another adult is unacceptable but a large number of people who think it’s fine to hit a child (who has less control over their behaviour) don’t see the disconnect.

I wasn’t hit. I don’t hit my children. Hitting just teachers the strongest person get to win. Thats not a lesson I’m interested in teaching my children.

'Lee, who is also part of the Be Reasonable England campaign, which supports the use of smacking, said: "It would be great if we could just be nice to children and think they would just be nice back.

"But the reality of it is, is that in order for children to understand the rules of society, and to learn how to behave in a way that is moral, and that is good, we have to have boundaries, and boundaries have to be backed up."'

This is all so odd to me. Does anyone really think that backing up your boundaries by smacking children makes them nicer and kinder? How could that possible be the case? If someone smacked you would it make you nicer and kinder? Then why would we imagine that it would make children nicer and kinder? Why would we not think that they'd actually just be learning that to get other people to do what you want you should ideally be bigger than them and hit them?

It’s also unacceptable to force another adult to go to bed and control their food and socialising choices. It’s coercive control. But we do that with kids and it’s seen as good parenting. Children are not small adults.

Like I said I’ve never hit, but I’m not as horrified by reasonable chastisement as everyone else seems to be. My parents gave me a light smack on the bottom if I did something very naughty or dangerous, I couldn’t care less. And I haven’t turned out violent myself.

Well, what does? Our kids are more anxious and violent than ever. The lack of smacking hasn’t been a recipe for great mental health has it?