To think that the law needs changing about right to protect yourself.

[NumbFeeling]

Things are getting out of hand in the country, and the level of violence and sexual assaults is out of control.

AIBU to think that the law needs changing about how we can defend ourselves? For example, if we were allowed to carry pepper sprays someone may have been able to stop further stabbings last night.

I’m not talking about carrying weapons, I’m talking about something that would immobile a killer, which doesn’t maim them. I don’t understand why they aren’t legal TBH.

Police arrive after an attack. Incidents aren’t being prevented, so at the time it’s you against an armed person, and you have no chance.

Things are out of control now, and I think we need to be able to at least have a chance.

AIBU to say we should be allowed to carry pepper sprays or similar?

It happened years ago, i live a safe life, so no i dont feel fearful

We have the right to defend ourselves and can use unlimited force if you feel your life is in danger, already.
If pepper spray was on sale here though - those committing assault are just as likely to carry it. More interested fact.
You may as well say everyone in that train should have been carrying knives so they could defend against this rare and random knife attack.

In the USA where you can carry weapons - 10s of 1000s of people die every year. 40k + to guns, 1000s in stabbing sand other assaults.
in fact the only reason their knife crime is lower than gun crime is because they CAN carry guns.
It’s a very violent society. Why on earth would we want to replicate that here?

So what happens when the pepper spray, guns etc get taken off the person carrying it and used against them?

Given that the police have completly abandoned the streets and given them over to the petty criminals, sex offenders and murderers it's no wonder people are starting to think about self defence.
The police are now a political institution, and no longer have any interest in upholding the rule of law, instead they are simply an instrument the state to be used against its own citizens.
We should start by removing all police protection for MP's and tear down the fences around parliament. If the streets are not safe for our MP's, they are not safe for us. If they had to live with consequences of their policies maybe we would get better decision making.

I did martial arts and self defence for many years - we were taught that yelling is VERY effective as men aren’t used to women reacting like that.
I was groped on the tube once and I YELLED at the top of my voice ‘Get your FUCKING hands off me you pervert’ to the totally ordinary looking man who had grab my arse.
He looked terrified as he started babbling at me. And I was like ‘ No you know what you did. Why don’t think you can assault women like that?’
he sprinted off at the next stop.
I did report it too, so they got his face off CCTV.
Perhaps my reaction made him think twice about next time.

You absolutely can defend yourself. Best bet is to take up karate or something like krav maga. A quick jab to the neck or eyeballs would down an attacker enough to disarm him.

The police who were on the train with guns in 8 minutes. Those police?

I didn’t say it was down. I said other people on the thread were arguing (reported) violent crime was falling (which it is overall), and I was explaining why the headline figure isn’t very helpful.

I think someone using pepper spray on that train would have made the situation 10 times worse but I'd be open to carrying deep heat spray to use against an attacker. However, it's just as likely an attacker would take it off me and use it against me. I don't think it's a good solution op.

NO people didn't carry knives. In the past you got inter gang fights and some might have a knife but randomly attacking MPs, public on trains, public in the street, children at a dance class - noooo way

I have to say the response of both the train crew and the police was exemplary.

Well something is going wrong when people that don't live in the UK keep hearing about these events and are horrified at what is going on. If I was younger, I would get out of here and feel sorry for those stuck here.

So the guy across from you has been stabbed - you squirt your spray all around the offender. You are behind him, not the one being stabbed - I would say that would stop the attacks if only temporarily. But would give a chance to grab the knife, push over the attacker - but no mumsnetters are just going to sit and scream/whimper until the offender notices you and goes for you next.🙄

I know absolutely ridiculous! I think a lot of these people must be in their 20s or 30s and so will not remember the good old days.

I believe there have been less knife related murder in London this year (not sure about other parts of the UK) which of course is good

But its how stats are collected and how crime is reported can change results to make a more positive spin which of course is good for governments . We have close contact with the police and probation through work and they are absolutely inundated and report they are busier than ever. We are too in forensic mh

And they will quite happily show up with just as many officers and guns to arrest you. if you make a doubleplusungood social media post. They are not on our side, not anymore.

You're playing it out in your head but this isn't a film. You are just as likely to spray fellow passengers stopping them from getting away. 🙄

Yes, Mods and Rockers, Skinheads, Bovver boys .....

Meaning? Never heard of them attacking women and children or ever seem them terrorising the public...or running around the streets with knives!

My ex bf was stabbed to death at work in 2005. He was not in a gang. Knives are not new.

I’m pretty sure they feature both all of twist and hard times, They’ve been around for some time

Oliver

The law in the U.K. does appear weighted in favour of the perpetrator - although perhaps it’s more the investigation and enforcement of the law by the prosecutorial authorities who seem to display little common sense.

I was depressed at reading a few years back that a female celebrity alone in her home with her young children was warned by the police that she was wrong to have picked up a kitchen knife and waved it at the hooded men outside her window as she dialled 999. It sometimes seems to me that women are required to be passive victims.

It used to be the law in France that killing a house invader at night was justifiable homicide on the basis that night invaders are always ill intentioned. And old Scots law exonerated any woman who killed her rapist. Too far perhaps, but the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction.

Oh get a grip.

Emergency service response to this incident this weekend was impressive, its got nothing to do with your twitter spats

No one is saying that people have never been killed through violence. Why do people want to minimise what is happening - Road blocks at Christmas markets, bag checks at theatres, children attacked at concerts and clubs. MH issue related violence due to a health service that cannot cope with this level of immigration.

It is the threat to our culture and everyday lives that has changed.