To think that the law needs changing about right to protect yourself.

[NumbFeeling]

Things are getting out of hand in the country, and the level of violence and sexual assaults is out of control.

AIBU to think that the law needs changing about how we can defend ourselves? For example, if we were allowed to carry pepper sprays someone may have been able to stop further stabbings last night.

I’m not talking about carrying weapons, I’m talking about something that would immobile a killer, which doesn’t maim them. I don’t understand why they aren’t legal TBH.

Police arrive after an attack. Incidents aren’t being prevented, so at the time it’s you against an armed person, and you have no chance.

Things are out of control now, and I think we need to be able to at least have a chance.

AIBU to say we should be allowed to carry pepper sprays or similar?

have you ever been subjected to CS gas in an enclosed space? It is not the answer.

The answer is that the Criminal Justice System wakes up and does its job. Properly without fear or favour.

The difficulty is that as soon as weapons become normal we are truly declaring there is no such thing as society. The era of peace in which we can cooperate to build a world together will be gone. It will truly be each for his/ her self. Would you dare to send your kids to school?

This is what I envisage as a social collapse, akin to the Dark Ages. Sadly I think it is coming. Unless we have change.

According to the ONS crime of all sorts has actually decreased quite significantly. I certainly wouldn't feel safe should be allowed to carry weapons of any sort.

The way to tackle violence isn’t to put more weapons into general circulation. And that’s what pepper spray is - a weapon.

Exactly
Bloody ridiculous idea.

is that reported crime? because most people i know in UK don't even bother reporting "minor crimes" because they know the police CBA to turn out

But that wouldn't necessarily be the situation. It is true that two sober, level headed people on hand with pepper sprays, able to use them without hurting anyone else, despite the knife attack coming out of nowhere, might have been a good thing on that train, though they would have taken a huge risk getting close enough to use the spray effectively.
However, it's more likely there would just be lots of pepper sprays being used in arguments by out of control people.
This is the argument that some Americans use to support everyone carrying a gun for their own defence, and they have far more of this kind of attack than we do.

Judging by the amount of people who think it would have helped if they'd been able to use PEPPER SPRAY in an ENCLOSED TRAIN CARRIAGE - no, I absolutely do not want the law to enable more fucking idiots to carry dangerous weapons.

So what if this guy had pepper spray and used it on the people around him, immobilising them, before stabbing his victims?

We'd have had multiple deaths.

Most people, unless trained, panic and will run.

Its about risk, you re chances of being killed or seriously injured in a road accident are many times more likely than confronting a maniac on a train.

It’s easy to say how you think you would react but you can’t know. I have been in extremis twice and both times I just froze. So sadly pretty sure that would be my response rather than leaping up and putting my kick boxing skills to use.

How are you defining that things are out of control now, OP? When did you consider all the crime in the UK under control?

The whole premise of your original post is based on false information. Whist crime overall is up in the latest stats that is primarily because of a large increase in fraud and computer crime

Violent crime is down overall. Yes yes I KNOW it will vary by region but overall it is down and has been coming down for years and years overall. We are safer from violence in this country than we have ever been, despite the inaccurate but seemingly unmovable hysteria about violence having got worse.

Crime in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics https://share.google/UuzM1NcBaWFK2UR5c

Of course individual high profile events frighten people but they are not any sort of indication of the real danger people are in when going about their normal business in this country.

Decisions about whether people should be able to carry defensive weapons should not be made based on fear and on ignorance of the actual facts about crime levels

If you want to defend yourself against a crime you really are quite likely to become a victim of, look to your online, computer and phone security protocols.

So no op, I dont want the law to change so that our environment becomes less safe than it is now. This is actually what would happen if every untrained person was allowed to carry something to 'defend themselves, look at the US

They way this country is going we will not be able to travel around safely. We will travel by car everywhere and only go out to our friends' houses or to activiites that are difficult to access in remote areas or places with armed guards.

If law and order isn't resolved this is the future.

Most women do carry things like a spray and keys in their fists when they walk. The trouble is that if they are close enough for those to be effective they can grab them, use them on you and others. Your best option is to run away and trust your gut. Sadly on trains this is only possible to the end of the carriage. I did think about lockable doors but with all ideas like this they can be used for and against a deviant and could cost lives in a fire.

Decisions about whether people should be able to carry defensive weapons should not be made based on fear and on ignorance of the actual facts about crime levels

People ARE being threatened with knives and violence on trains ask anyone who commutes to London regularly.

Maybe having a guard that has martial arts training on each train would be an idea to trial?

FWIW we travel to London frequently on the train and have never had issues with violence but pervy men and lack of seating is not uncommon.

I think once you were in the car and they were outside of the car, the law would consider they were no longer a threat and rather than run them over you could drive to a safe distance and call the police

I can understand why you feel like this but as others have said, it would lead to unnecessary escalation of situations. I know it’s extreme but just look at gun laws in the States.

Yeah don't do this - a woman locally did this, knocked the guy off his feet with her car (he had chased her car in his car shouted obscenities about her driving then both had stopped at lights and got out...) and she is now in prison. He is still alive but clearly despite him being threatening to her they ruled this was premeditated assault on her behalf.

One guard against people with knives would be useless and as much at risk no matter what unarmed combat training they had.

There was only one attacker?

If we armed everyone I can see that would lead to more than one person potentially being attackers at a time...

The survey I pointed to by the ONS does ask people about their experience of crime and and I repeat again, violent crime is down overal including knife crime. This can be true even if some individuals have a specific different experience. That is why when we ask people we ask more than a few in a small area about their experience.

Now it may be that there has been an increase in violent or knife crime specifically on public transport. I am not sure what the actual proper evidence is of that is but since overall knife crime is down, it would likely have a specific reason. It won't just be as a result of more violence across the country generally because... well violent crime is down overall

So if violent crime is down overall but up on public transport the answer is for the police to tackle it, as this is likely to be a result of a specific reason. The answer is not to be allow everyone to arm themselves for self defence

Well, pepper spray in a confined space would incapacitate everyone, including the person trying to defend themselves.

So I can see how it could cause more problems than it solves. Not to mention the legal action against the pepper sprayer from all the professional victims who claim to have "been assaulted and blinded and are now suffering PTSD."

We need a four fold increase in the number of Police Officers, not untrained people carrying pepper spray.

If the responding officers had been on that train the attack would never have happened in the first place.

The underfunded police stopped it within eight minutes of the first 999 call. Officers on the train would have stopped it within eight seconds.

We need more police.

I'll wait for the pile on about how all police officers are misogynistic, abusive cunt$.

Any weapon of defence is also a weapon of attack. How to you propose limiting these things only to those who seek to defend themselves, while preventing them getting into the hands of those who seek to harm?

Exactly. Ref gun ownership in the US and the level of shootings