Trigger warning: newspaper story involving sex abuse and baby murder. To be furious that this girl has been treated as a suspect and not a victim

[Oioicaptain]

I am utterly perplexed by the decision to charge and label the daughter as being in a consensual incestuous relationship with her father. She had 2 babies with him before she was 20. He had another with another of his daughters, which was forced. Who on earth in their right mind believes that any daughter would willingly have a consensual sexual relationship with their own father and choose to father his children and give birth at home without any medical assistance and then kill her own babies?!!! This poor young lady lost her mother at a young age and has doubtless endured years of abuse and trauma. Yet here she is, paraded around by the tabloids and charged rather than being treated as a victim.

Remains of three newborns discovered in 'house of horror' in Poland https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12530345/Remains-three-newborns-discovered-basement-father-54-daughter-20-consensual-relationship-raped-girls.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

@ProfessorSlocombe she's not just been charged with murder. She's been charged with having an incestuous relationship with her father

Yes she's an abuse victim

Sounds like Stockholm syndrome to me . Poor women

I thought the same thing when I read this. She is a victim too. Murdered babies, sex with two daughters, shaving her head.

This is a mess and his daughters need support too. She may think she is in a consensual relationship with her father, but she most definitely is not.

Yes I thought the same. Very strange reporting of this.

I am sorry but I would want far more information than a report in the Mail before coming to a decision.

Exactly what I thought. She is only 20 now, of course she’s been groomed and raped from a young age.

How could that relationship be consensual, poor woman. The man has sexually abused at least two of his daughters, sickening.

The main defining factor I think is the "could she have walked away?" "could she have reported what was happening?"

Once she passes a point of age where she is a legal adult what did she do?....

I am very well aware of the issues, you have grooming, Stockholm syndrome, along with all the other obvious issues here...but if she could have stopped/left/reported and didn't, then she becomes complicit.

If she is right now "happily" claiming to be in a consensual relationship and is/was "free to leave" and aware of the murders....its very difficult territory.

BTW though I'm with you completely, She should be treated as a victim (if the reports are correct).

I think the stuff on her face is chocolate. The article states she works in a bakery and then said it was a confectionary store so I assume chocolate. Agree that it is horrific and she is a victim rather than a suspect.

I am the last person who would judge anyone, but this story is a bit more complicated. The girl was "in a relationship" with her father for a minimum of 4 years, they made no secret of it, the whole village (more than 200 people) knew (including their family, her brother admitted on FB that he also knew), they walked hand in hand, embraced each other in public, the girl's friends said that she never said a bad word about her father, they exchanged affection and heart-to-heart between them on FB for several years. Of course, I agree that the girl is a victim, but according to the testimony of people who knew her, it was a voluntary relationship - she was not imprisoned by her father, she worked, had normal contact with people, a completely different situation than with Fritzl. And as she is suspected of involvement in the murder of 2 newborns, according to the letter of Polish law, the police could not act otherwise and had to arrest her. What will happen next no one knows, already there are suspicions that other things happened in this house, and that the death of the children's mother 15 years ago was not accidental.

I was horrified by this story too on multiple levels. And the picture was hugely upsetting too if it is what I assumed it was... why was there no trigger warning and why at all? She very much sounds a child abuse victim.

I have no words poor girl

I am the last person who would judge anyone, but this story is a bit more complicated. The girl was "in a relationship" with her father for a minimum of 4 years

Of course, I agree that the girl is a victim, but according to the testimony of people who knew her, it was a voluntary relationship

4 years ago she was 16. I personally don't believe a 16 year old can be in a voluntary relationship with her father. Especially not a father who shaves her hair off so other boys won't look at her.

And the minimum of 4 years makes it sound like her father was raping her as an underage child. There's nothing voluntary about that even if the child thinks it's voluntary

These are the statements of people who know this girl and her last employer, who noticed that she was recently pregnant and then suddenly there was neither pregnancy nor baby, that is why she notified the authorities. The most shocking thing about this case is that everyone knew about it and no one did anything, everyone saw that they "lived like husband and wife" and considered it normal, because they saw them constantly together in loving embraces and, as they stated, "got used to it." Even her brother knew and, despite being in the military, did nothing about it. I don't know how it will go on, but the Polish law will never forgive her killing this 2 newborns.

I am well aware that the girl needs long-term treatment, and being under the influence of her sick father for many years, she may not even be fully aware of what is really going on here, but in Poland such matters are perceived differently, and with such a sick case the authorities probably haven't even dealt yet. It turns out that already 10 years ago someone reported that in this house there may have been sexual contact between the father and the children, but this was ignored. I'm afraid there's a lot we don't know yet.

This is dreadful and sad but don't be naive enough to think that this doesn't happen ever by choice.
There have been cases of young women who have chosen to engage in sexual relationships with their fathers.
I am not saying that this is what she did.
But to all those saying a young 16 would never do this is simply untrue.
Unfortunately, in my job I have dealt with cases like this.

Sorry, let me correct that before I get lambasted! I don't mean choice in that way.

The sort of people who blame her for not walking away are probably the same sort of people who blame domestic abuse victims for not walking away. They've often had their confidence and belief in their ability to cope alone completely eroded plus have often been told they'll be killed if they leave. Look at all the murders that happen when a domestic abuse victim tries to leave.
How much more difficult would it be when abuse is all you've ever known from a parent?

I am completely aware of that. It's my job to help people in those situations.

I couldn't believe this when I read it. Brought up by him, but because she's 20 when he's caught it's consensual? It's madness.

Termination was made illegal in Poland in 2020. Although you can terminate due to incest apparently medical barriers are put in place. https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/09/14/poland-abortion-witch-hunt-targets-women-doctors

Where they stillborn? And the murder accusation is thrown about - just like women are scared to seek medical advice for a miscarriage?

If the public knew they had a sexual relationship did the police or school already know (small village)? If so what did authorities do about it? One article said the police were told he was having sex with a daughter 10 years ago - but no evidence found.

The article extract above suggests the mothers death may not have been accidental. This implies the dad may have caused this. Did the girl witness this? Was this common village knowledge? Did the police investigate? If it was 15 years ago this girl has lived 15 years with this man potentially being groomed. One news article said the neighbours heard girls screaming and the verbal abuse was shocking.

Sounds like a young abused woman being accused by a misogynistic society. Who did fuck all to protect the children.

Have the women actually accused the father of abusing/ grooming them? While I am sure that this is most likely what happened I guess there is little the police and prosecutors can do if the adults all stick to the same story and protect each other.
I reckon rural Poland will be worse affected by the country’s conservative trend that has been going on for many years now.

Poland is a very religious country I think. Its legal system is based on very traditional Conservative Christian ideals. Babies are totally innocent but girls having sex are not, no matter what the circumstances of the sex or the age of the girl.