Karen advert

[IncognitoMam]

This shouldn't be allowed surely? Who comes up with this shit?
I'm not called Karen but I know Karen's that hate their name now because of the way it's used.

I don't give a fuck where the term originated

It's a misogynistic and ageist put down, designed to shit is up

Anyone that uses the term, whatever the context, is just thick.

Although to quote pp Women do get to talk about their misogyny I don't believe @Socrateswasrightaboutvoting was disputing that.

So we’re doing that. We’re talking about it, and objecting.

I agree with you btw

Yes, that was me @BillaBongGirl

You've posted that same photo several times now. That's spamming again and I've reported you this time as it's becoming a joke.

Misuse of Karen includes insisting it means something other than what it really means, includes insisting it has an origin it doesn’t have, includes insisting that it is never about racism from white women, insisting it is a slur when it isn’t a slur. Those are all misuse and appropriation.

Why do you get to deny the lived experience of other women?

Re that one Australian definition: we all know 'Karen' is an insult for an older woman who is allegedly too pushy and entitled. It's all about telling women their opinion doesn't matter and they should shut up.

The poster asked me directly why I thought that was the Australian definition of a Karen! What else am I supposed to do? It’s a published definition from the Australian dictionary.

Yes. Misogynistic and ageist is how it's used in the UK, and according to an Australian poster how it's primarily used in Australia** (even the spammed dictionary definition bears that out).

Oh god I read Merope's article when it came out and it was an absolute sucker punch to the gut.

May we all have the strength to advocate for ourselves and our children.

Just a patient reminder that 'Karen' as a term was created and popularised by white men to be a sexist attack on white women, it has always been used that way, and the usage insisted on by the misogynistic de-railers on this thread was a late-term very recent appropriation. They are (mostly deliberately) lying about its origins as a gaslighting technique. The original objection to the advert is based on the correct reading of the situation.

@BillaBongGirl to keep it simple.

There's a word for an older woman who's judged too pushy and opinionated.

That word is being applied to women almost indiscriminately when they have an opinion of any sort. Sometimes, just for existing in the wrong place!

Can you not see how that is a problem?

It’s not spam to answer a poster asking me where I got my Australia Karen definition from by posting a screenshot of the definition of Karen in the Australian dictionary. I’ve reported you for misuse of the report function.

No-one on this thread has been using/misusing it as a slur, they have been objecting to that usage.
Honestly, round and round we go.

That's exactly right. I think people are taking the piss at this stage. You'd have to be really dim as the alternative.

That word should not be Karen.

I’ve reported you for misuse of the report function.

Don't worry @BillaBongGirl
I didn't select the 'spam' button when reporting so no misuse. I explained exactly why I was reporting, but I won't repeat that here because of talk guidelines.

Hth

Most threads with similar talking points go the same way, a recent one in FWR IIRC along the lines of white women's lack of awareness or acknowledgment of the ways in which they can uphold and even promote racist structures both directly and indirectly. No-one brought up the name Karen so that thankfully wasn't going to be the sticking point. Apparently it was the suggestion that white women are somehow responsible for all past and present crimes against humanity, which no-one said. Apparently it was the implication that all white women everywhere are terrible, which again no-one said. Apparently it was the issue that white women are fair game, and the best was the 'imagine the outcry if someone said/wrote this about any other group. Of course sprinkles of what about various other groups - do they not behave like this etc etc. If nothing else, it helps to know what you're dealing with.

Why do you get to deny Black culture and silence the voices of Black Women?

Some of those who have been misusing it are on this thread.

I really don't understand you, who has misused it on this thread?

There were 2 posters early on in the thread calling people posting here 'Karens' just for talking about this subject, but I don't think you're referring to them?

Apart from those 2, nobody else on this thread has called anyone a 'Karen', so how exactly are posters here misusing it? How can they be misusing a term they haven't actually used against anyone?

Or are you saying that the posters explaining how the word is being misused against any woman = posters 'misusing' the term? Because that doesn't make any sense.

It shouldn’t be anything

You can have Karen if you want it but you don’t need to convince us. You need to convince those who use it due to ageism and misogyny.

We object to it already.

“used predominantly to refer to a middle-class white woman, often of generation X, who is regarded as having an entitled, condescending and often racist attitude”

Nope, the definition doesn’t bear the misogyny and ageism out. It’s used to describe anti-social, often racist behaviour.

That word should not be Karen.

But that word is Karen.

Only if you accept that it’s misuse and appropriation are legitimate.

You do know that the word has evolved so quickly that the 2020 definition is already out of date by 2023. Australia doesn’t stand still any more than the USA or the U.K. And as for it not being a slur, what else is a derogatory term?

They think if men or other women call middle aged women Karens it’s the woman at the receiving end who is to blame. But only in this case, ie only women play a role in legitimising an insult.

It’s messed up but they prefer to deny the view of many women

Only if you accept that it’s misuse and appropriation are legitimate

It's happening in the real world, which is exactly what this thread is about. Or do you expect everyone who gets called a Karen to turn around and say, excuse me, that's not what Karen is supposed to mean? What do you think would happen if they did? 'OK Karen.'