Page 35 | Karen advert

IncognitoMam · 2023-08-26T06:29:14+00:00

This shouldn't be allowed surely? Who comes up with this shit? I'm not called Karen but I know Karen's that hate their name now because of the way it's used.

Beachcomber · 27/08/2023 18:28

BillaBongGirl · 27/08/2023 18:01

Misuse of Karen includes insisting it means something other than what it really means, includes insisting it has an origin it doesn’t have, includes insisting that it is never about racism from white women, insisting it is a slur when it isn’t a slur. Those are all misuse and appropriation.

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So what are white middle-aged women supposed to do when a white person calls them "a Karen" in a situation where race is not a factor? Because at the moment "Karen" is being used like that all over the internet. Or are you suggesting that race is always a factor due to the womens' whiteness? Because that's starting to sound like saying that everything a white woman does that anyone disagrees with is her being racist (as long as she's middle-aged of course[.

Is it the same for men? Is everything a middle-aged white man does that someone, somewhere disagrees with always racist?

Because that sounds like co-opting racism to me.

BillaBongGirl · 27/08/2023 18:29

CloudyMcCloudy · 27/08/2023 18:18

It shouldn’t be anything

You can have Karen if you want it but you don’t need to convince us. You need to convince those who use it due to ageism and misogyny.

We object to it already.

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Surely it’s up to you to convince those that misuse it that you & your friends are not Karens?

By buying into their appropriation and misuse of it as an ageist and misogynist insult, are you not agreeing with them that they are using it correctly? And thereby being complicit in the appropriation and misuse of Black culture and slang?

NotTerfNorCis · 27/08/2023 18:31

Surely it’s up to you to convince those that misuse it that you & your friends are not Karens?

Wow. So if someone calls you a cow or a whore or a bitch or any other sexist insult, is the onus always on you to politely convince them that you aren't, in fact, a cow, a whore or a bitch?

BillaBongGirl · 27/08/2023 18:31

So what are white middle-aged women supposed to do when a white person calls them "a Karen" in a situation where race is not a factor?

Lol at them and tell them they don’t have the first clue what a Karen is and yes, they are engaging in cultural appropriation if they are white.

wayyour · 27/08/2023 18:32

Nope, the definition doesn’t bear the misogyny and ageism out. It’s used to describe anti-social, often racist behaviour.

Yes it does bear it out. You've spammed it so much you think you'd remember some of the wording, rather than make some up. Anti social isn't even listed there in the definition . Tut tut Billabong.

Génération X (so middle aged - tick), entitled (tick) and condescending (tick) then often racist tagged on the end. So primarily then, just like the Australian poster said earlier who was quite certain of its use.

MorrisZapp · 27/08/2023 18:33

BillaBongGirl · 27/08/2023 18:04

The poster asked me directly why I thought that was the Australian definition of a Karen! What else am I supposed to do? It’s a published definition from the Australian dictionary.

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Lolz, of course the dictionary matters much more than how people actually use the word. In Scotland, the kitchen worktop is called a bunker and the groceries are called messages. But I'm lying, because the dictionary says otherwise.

Did you read about the Karen's Diner business started in Australia by two Australians, who are now being sued by other Australians because they were verbally and physically abused in their workplace?

Sigmama · 27/08/2023 18:33

If someone calls me a bitch, its just a misappropriation of a dog term? Words hurt whatever their origin.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 27/08/2023 18:34

Surely it’s up to you to convince those that misuse it that you & your friends are not Karens?

By buying into their appropriation and misuse of it as an ageist and misogynist insult, are you not agreeing with them that they are using it correctly? And thereby being complicit in the appropriation and misuse of Black culture and slang?

So when someone calls me a Karen I am complicit in appropriation of black culture and slang?

WTF?

MorrisZapp · 27/08/2023 18:35

Sigmama · 27/08/2023 18:33

If someone calls me a bitch, its just a misappropriation of a dog term? Words hurt whatever their origin.

Yip and I can call your mum a bitch too. It just means a female dog so where's the harm?

CecilyP · 27/08/2023 18:35

BillaBongGirl · 27/08/2023 18:01

Misuse of Karen includes insisting it means something other than what it really means, includes insisting it has an origin it doesn’t have, includes insisting that it is never about racism from white women, insisting it is a slur when it isn’t a slur. Those are all misuse and appropriation.

Show quote history

What it means is what people use it to mean. The most common usage of a very new word, which is becoming increasingly common. We can’t say it’s never about racism, that would be silly, but in most, if not all, contexts we have actually seen or heard it, racism has nothing to do with it. And it doesn’t definitely is a slur. Confront the people you feel are actually misusing it. Good luck with that - could be a full time job for you!

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 27/08/2023 18:36

NotTerfNorCis · 27/08/2023 18:31

Surely it’s up to you to convince those that misuse it that you & your friends are not Karens?

Wow. So if someone calls you a cow or a whore or a bitch or any other sexist insult, is the onus always on you to politely convince them that you aren't, in fact, a cow, a whore or a bitch?

Yes, and you have to educate them on the proper usage of said term.

This thread is comedy gold.

BillaBongGirl · 27/08/2023 18:36

NotTerfNorCis · 27/08/2023 18:31

Surely it’s up to you to convince those that misuse it that you & your friends are not Karens?

Wow. So if someone calls you a cow or a whore or a bitch or any other sexist insult, is the onus always on you to politely convince them that you aren't, in fact, a cow, a whore or a bitch?

Nice of you to delete the entire quote history. It’s not my responsibility as a Black woman that white people done stole Karen from us and are misusing it between each other in an offensive manner, that is your community. That is for you to fix. It’s not my responsibility to fix the problem. I’ve done my bit to try and educate you on this thread, it’s now up to you to treat Karen the way it should be treated.

Cow, whore, bitch not even close to the same.

Boomboom22 · 27/08/2023 18:37

Usage changes. In the UK I have never heard Karen used to mean racist, always a woman who is complaining when they should. Exactly like bitch means female dog but doesn't, it means any woman not being kind.

MorrisZapp · 27/08/2023 18:37

NotTerfNorCis · 27/08/2023 18:31

Surely it’s up to you to convince those that misuse it that you & your friends are not Karens?

Wow. So if someone calls you a cow or a whore or a bitch or any other sexist insult, is the onus always on you to politely convince them that you aren't, in fact, a cow, a whore or a bitch?

My jaw needs to unhinge further, it can't drop any more.

BillaBongGirl · 27/08/2023 18:37

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 27/08/2023 18:36

Yes, and you have to educate them on the proper usage of said term.

This thread is comedy gold.

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I don’t think that racism or cultural appropriation are laughing matters.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 27/08/2023 18:38

BillaBongGirl · 27/08/2023 18:37

I don’t think that racism or cultural appropriation are laughing matters.

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Then why are you making a laughing matter out of them?

CloudyMcCloudy · 27/08/2023 18:39

BillaBongGirl · 27/08/2023 18:29

Surely it’s up to you to convince those that misuse it that you & your friends are not Karens?

By buying into their appropriation and misuse of it as an ageist and misogynist insult, are you not agreeing with them that they are using it correctly? And thereby being complicit in the appropriation and misuse of Black culture and slang?

Show quote history

You can have it back if you want it. As for saying anything I haven’t had it used to me but it’s easy to see how it’s used everywhere on SM and in general. And I object on behalf of women.

It’s used against middle aged women due to ageism and sexism

For some reason you keep denying women telling you their understanding and experiences.

As for insults is it only women who legitimise insults or do you blame minorities too when they are on the receiving end?

BillaBongGirl · 27/08/2023 18:40

wayyour · 27/08/2023 18:32

Nope, the definition doesn’t bear the misogyny and ageism out. It’s used to describe anti-social, often racist behaviour.

Yes it does bear it out. You've spammed it so much you think you'd remember some of the wording, rather than make some up. Anti social isn't even listed there in the definition . Tut tut Billabong.

Génération X (so middle aged - tick), entitled (tick) and condescending (tick) then often racist tagged on the end. So primarily then, just like the Australian poster said earlier who was quite certain of its use.

Anti-social is an umbrella term covering entitled and condescending.

But nothing in it says it is a misogynistic or ageist slur, not ever, not even “primarily”

It is a derogatory term for an attitude:
“a term used predominantly to refer to a middle-class white woman, often of generation X, who is regarded as having an entitled, condescending and often racist attitude”

BillaBongGirl · 27/08/2023 18:42

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 27/08/2023 18:34

Surely it’s up to you to convince those that misuse it that you & your friends are not Karens?

By buying into their appropriation and misuse of it as an ageist and misogynist insult, are you not agreeing with them that they are using it correctly? And thereby being complicit in the appropriation and misuse of Black culture and slang?

So when someone calls me a Karen I am complicit in appropriation of black culture and slang?

WTF?

No. By insisting on this thread that Karen is purely a misogynistic and ageist slur you are complicit in its appropriation and misuse.

CecilyP · 27/08/2023 18:43

Only if you accept that it’s misuse and appropriation are legitimate.

Legitimate? Language doesn’t work like that. It gets used in a certain way and that way becomes common and established usage. We’re hardly going to take people to court if they do it wrong!

NotTerfNorCis · 27/08/2023 18:45

Nice of you to delete the entire quote history. It’s not my responsibility as a Black woman that white people done stole Karen from us and are misusing it between each other in an offensive manner, that is your community. That is for you to fix. It’s not my responsibility to fix the problem. I’ve done my bit to try and educate you on this thread, it’s now up to you to treat Karen the way it should be treated.

To be fair, the rest of the quote was even crazier. You said women being called 'Karen' to shut them up are 'complicit' in appropriating black culture. That's taking victim blaming to a new level.

As people have told you repeatedly, the origins of 'Karen' aren't necessarily even from the African-American community. It may well have been invented by a white man, on Reddit.

The only way women can 'fix' this problem is for them to fight to have Karen treated as any other misogynist insult.

Remember that the way 'Karen' is used now, older black women can equally be Karens.

And I've seen women challenge the use of Karen, many, many times. It doesn't work. Most times they get an 'OK Karen'. Once I saw a smug twat of a bloke say: 'if you don't want to be called Karen, stop acting like one.' This was in response to a woman whose real name was Karen, and who was objecting to its use as an insult. He had no idea who she was, or what she was like as a person.

DojaPhat · 27/08/2023 18:45

As for insults is it only women who legitimise insults or do you blame minorities too when they are on the receiving end?

Minorities are often blamed for the ill treatment they receive. It's almost always a case of getting to the root of what the minority person could have done or said to warrant such treatment. If none is forthcoming then the likeliest conclusion will be said white aggressor (if aggressor is white) was 'having a bad day' or 'didn't mean it like that' or something along those lines.

Beachcomber · 27/08/2023 18:47

BillaBongGirl · 27/08/2023 18:22

Only if you accept that it’s misuse and appropriation are legitimate.

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Lightbulb moment here for me!

When a woman is called "a Karen" by a white person in a situation that does not involve any black or brown people and she objects to it, her objection is legitimising the misuse and appropriating of the term by the person who used it to insult and belittle her.

I'm not sure yet what it means if she doesn't object. Perhaps that is also legitimising the misuse and appropriating of the term because she hasn't pointed out the misuse and appropriating....

MorrisZapp · 27/08/2023 18:47

The only thing I'm complicit in is wasting my time and energy arguing in circles with an interlocutor who has no point to make.

It'll fill up soon enough and I can go back to my jigsaw.

BillaBongGirl · 27/08/2023 18:48

CloudyMcCloudy · 27/08/2023 18:39

You can have it back if you want it. As for saying anything I haven’t had it used to me but it’s easy to see how it’s used everywhere on SM and in general. And I object on behalf of women.

It’s used against middle aged women due to ageism and sexism

For some reason you keep denying women telling you their understanding and experiences.

As for insults is it only women who legitimise insults or do you blame minorities too when they are on the receiving end?

Show quote history

I’m not denying that women have experienced being called Karen when they were not being a Karen and they felt it was uncalled for.

I am objecting to the contention that Karen is a slur used against middle aged white women “just for existing” as one poster put it or “disagreeing with a man” as another put it or “disagreeing with any younger man or woman” as another poster put it.

Why is Karen being targeting as the only insult that has to be banned because it gets misused? We don’t do that with any other derogatory term at all, ever.