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AIBU?

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Original poster

Is it time to watch the mud stick with TFG? Watch this space!

984 replies

Roussette · 21/09/2022 21:03

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4396017-Big-Bird-may-be-innocent-but-who-can-vouch-for-Elmo?page=40&reply=120171921

Previous thread!

This thread is now full, here is the link to the new thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4912378-trump-gets-gagged-mccarthy-gets-booted-whats-next-in-trumpworld? (added my MNHQ)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
80
Original poster
Roussette · 09/05/2023 20:23

Oh my! How satisfying is this. Such a brave woman.

OP posts:
borntobequiet · 09/05/2023 20:26

Gosh, that sounds positive. But I don’t know how these things usually stack up.

DuncinToffee · 09/05/2023 20:31

Reading tweets, it seems that he can still run for president.

Igotjelly · 09/05/2023 20:36

DuncinToffee · 09/05/2023 20:31

Reading tweets, it seems that he can still run for president.

I’m fairly certain in theory that he could run for president and serve even if he was behind bars.

BruceAndNosh · 09/05/2023 20:41

Less than 3 hours deliberation

DuncinToffee · 09/05/2023 20:46

Saw this tweet from Emma Kennedy

The bravery of @ejeancarroll can’t be underestimated. 26 other women have also credibly accused Trump of sexual assault. She’s led the way.

26!

BruceAndNosh · 09/05/2023 20:51

Interesting detail - the jury found Trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation but not liable for rape

BruceAndNosh · 09/05/2023 20:57

I can guarantee that Trump will not be paying Tacopina's bill

DuncinToffee · 09/05/2023 21:03

from the bbc

Count I - Battery

Let's go through each count, and how the jury ruled.
For the first count, battery, the jury was asked if Carroll was able to prove that:

  • Trump raped Carroll? Jury says NO.
  • Trump sexually abused Carroll? Jury says YES.
  • Carroll was injured as a result of Trump's conduct? Jury says YES.
Jury determines Trump to pay Carroll $2m to compensate her for those injuries.
  • Trump's conduct was willfully or wantonly negligent, reckless, or done with a conscious disregard of the rights of Carroll? Jury says YES.
Jury determines Trump to pay Carroll $20k in punitive damages.
DuncinToffee · 09/05/2023 21:04

Count II - Defamation

**For the second count, the jury was asked if Carroll was able to prove that:

  • Trump's statement was defamatory? Jury says YES.
  • Trump's statement was false? Jury says YES.
  • Trump made the statement with actual malice?Jury says YES.
  • She was injured as a result of Trump's publication of the 12 October 2022 statement? Jury says YES.
Jury suggests Trump pay Carroll $280k in compensatory damages. Jury determines Trump to pay Carroll $1.7m in punitive damages.
AcrossthePond55 · 09/05/2023 21:22

I'm glad of the verdicts and I hope more cases like hers are filed. I expect there just wasn't the evidence for a finding of rape. I'm glad that he's finally been held responsible for at least one instance of his criminal and despicable behaviour. Not that it's going to affect him.

This civil case isn't going to stop the Doofus 'Crazy Train'. In fact, this is only going to strengthen his determination to get reelected in 2024. To him, that would be the ultimate vindication. And his 'cult' will throw even more money to his 'legal fund' and 'reelection fund'. They truly believe him when he shouts 'this is the greatest witch-hunt in history'.

And I think we're going to hear 'crickets' from the GOP with the exception of Taylor Greene, Gaetz, Jordan and that ilk. There will be no condemnation from the rank and file, they want to hedge their own bets.

We can only hope that this is the start of a long slow train-wreck of his Crazy Train as more and more of the legal cases against him are heard and verdicts rendered. Now that one jury has rightly ruled against him, that will hopefully encourage other juries to do the same without fear of reprisals.

@DuncinToffee @Igotjelly
Yes, he can still be president. Even murder doesn't bar someone from running or being elected. The only crimes that bar election are sedition and treason as part of the sentences for those crimes is 'never able to hold public office again'.

AcrossthePond55 · 09/05/2023 21:23

Addendum:

It remains to be seen if Doofus' legal team will file an appeal of these verdicts. It wouldn't surprise me.

BruceAndNosh · 09/05/2023 21:29

Trump spokesperson has said they will appeal.

It will be the first time in history there has been anything appealing about Trump

BruceAndNosh · 09/05/2023 21:30

If he has been found guilty of defaming her, surely he is repeating the crime every time he denounces the verdict?

DuncinToffee · 09/05/2023 21:31

I found this interesting from the BBC website

How Carroll won against Trump

Nada Tawfik, Reporting from court

In the end, this case hinged on E Jean Carroll's credibility. Although the trial lasted two weeks, it only took about three hours for the jury to reach a verdict.
Some members of the nine-person jury may have largely decided they believed Carroll after hearing her testify about the assault in graphic and vivid detail.
The aggressive cross-examination of Carroll by Donald Trump’s lawyer may not have helped his case, according to legal experts. Over the course of two days, Joe Tacopina repeatedly pressed Carroll on how she acted, including why she did not scream during it.
“When it becomes so brash in tone, there is a point where it feels like you’re beating up on this witness personally,” said Kristy Greenberg, a former federal prosecutor in New York. “When you cross that line, I think that’s where you start to lose the jury.”

BruceAndNosh · 10/05/2023 08:46

Trump can say "I'm not as bad as George Santos"

BruceAndNosh · 10/05/2023 08:55

Extremely graphic discussion on CNN about definition of rape v sexual abuse. I assume Jury decided based on Carroll's testimony (and the logistics of sexual contact under the described conditions) that Trump was able to penetrate her digitally but not with his penis.

I AM concerned about this going to appeal. I don't know the US system but does that mean verdict is reviewed by judges not a Jury? We know that Trump spent 4 years stacking the benches with his chosen appointees

LizzieW1969 · 10/05/2023 11:18

I’m more concerned that none of this is going to stop Trump from running for President. At this stage, it appears as if it could even improve his chances of winning as well. According to the news recently, he’s doing better in the polls than Biden. Sadly, a lot of American voters are buying his claim that it’s a ‘witch-hunt’.

What does Trump have to do for his supporters to turn against him??

I’m not saying that the case shouldn’t have gone ahead or that these women shouldn’t have had their day in court, they absolutely deserve to be heard. But it could backfire horribly, I really hope not obviously.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 10/05/2023 11:33

I comfort myself by remembering that his supporters are fewer than one-third of the American voters, and though it is likely they will never see through him, that is not enough to get him voted in as President.

I'm more concerned about the trumpalikes who may come after him, less stupid, less personally venal and far more dangerous to the very idea of democracy. The seed is being sown for them to carry on without him, with the successful reduction of those able to vote, through legislation desigged to make it more difficult for students, the black and the poor to do so.

AcrossthePond55 · 10/05/2023 14:47

@BruceAndNosh

I don't know the US system but does that mean verdict is reviewed by judges not a Jury?

Yes. The appeal goes to an appellate board which reviews the case for errors or violation of the law on the part of the people involved in the case. If no error/violation is found, the appeal is denied. If an error or violation is found the case is (normally) either remanded back to the original court for corrective action and/or a new trial is ordered. As far as I can tell Doofus currently has 5 of his appointees sitting in Appeals for SDNY.

@LizzieW1969

What does Trump have to do for his supporters to turn against him??

Become pro-choice, pro-stringent gun control, denounce Christianity, support BLM and other civil rights organizations. Nothing else will change their minds. He's said he can kill someone and still not lose support. He's right. The only thing would be if he turned against everything the alt-right stands for.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

I'm more concerned about the trumpalikes who may come after him, less stupid, less personally venal and far more dangerous to the very idea of democracy.

Yep, and it's already happening. We already have 'Trump-lite' DiSantis testing the waters. I think too many people are chuckling at him and his various idiocies, but it never pays to underestimate your enemy.

AcrossthePond55 · 10/05/2023 14:53

CNN TV breaking: 13 counts against Rep Geo Santos: 7 wire fraud, 3 money laundering, 1 theft of public funds, 2 materially false statements to congress. He's currently in custody and is expect to be before a judge around 1.30 EDT.

Will this be enough for McCarthy to demand his resignation? Not on your tintype!! The GOP has 222 seats, 50.6%, the Dems 213 seats, 47.8%. That's only a 9 vote majority and he's not going to want to give up one single vote.

BruceAndNosh · 10/05/2023 16:22

McCarthy is a spineless weasel.

BruceAndNosh · 10/05/2023 16:25

Trump is proving that his base doesnt give a shit as long as they get their candidate in.
Trouble is, Biden is not as strong a candidate as he was 4 years ago, and Harris seems invisible. Trump is still capable of kicking them out, even from a defendant's chair