to disagree with a uni vice-principal that this is abusive?

Whatwouldscullydo · 02/02/2022 21:25

To deny their sex is to deny their journey surely ?

FitAt50 · 02/02/2022 21:27

You are not going to get much balance on here, mumsnet as a whole is very anti-trans. The majority seem to think they are just pervy men who pretend they want to be women, so they can spy on them in swimming pools or fitting rooms. I have only ever known 2 real trans women and they were lovely and have experience years of abuse.

NothingIsWrong · 02/02/2022 21:30

@FitAt50

You are not going to get much balance on here, mumsnet as a whole is very anti-trans. The majority seem to think they are just pervy men who pretend they want to be women, so they can spy on them in swimming pools or fitting rooms. I have only ever known 2 real trans women and they were lovely and have experience years of abuse.

How do you define "real" transwomen then?

Ihatemynewcandle · 02/02/2022 21:31

They are males. That is an incontrovertible, undeniable fact. There is absolutely nothing bigoted about saying it.

That does not mean they are not deserving of the same kindness, dignity and respect as everyone else.

But they are males and to deny this is to deny reality.

The UWS is not a serious university. It used to be Paisley College. I would not take the opinions of their VC seriously and I can’t imagine anyone else does either.

Joolsin · 02/02/2022 21:32

@FitAt50 But those two real transwomen were males, otherwise they wouldn't be transwomen, they would just be women. The fact they are male is what makes them transwomen

Original poster

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 02/02/2022 21:37

@FitAt50

You are not going to get much balance on here, mumsnet as a whole is very anti-trans. The majority seem to think they are just pervy men who pretend they want to be women, so they can spy on them in swimming pools or fitting rooms. I have only ever known 2 real trans women and they were lovely and have experience years of abuse.

Do you think it's abusive or bigoted to state that they are male?

OP posts:

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 02/02/2022 21:45

[quote Joolsin]@FitAt50 But those two real transwomen were males, otherwise they wouldn't be transwomen, they would just be women. The fact they are male is what makes them transwomen[/quote]
This

FitAt50 · 02/02/2022 21:49

I agree that its not bigoted, maybe they could have said "born male" but not bigoted.

Whatwouldscullydo · 02/02/2022 21:51

Born male implies you can change sex. Do you believe that's possible?

TheOriginalEmu · 02/02/2022 21:51

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Today, I've seen this exchange.

Person 1: And most trans women aren’t men.

Person 2: They are males.

Person 1: And you are an abusive bigot for asserting so. Blocked.

This would be of very little significance, except person 1 is the vice-principal of a Scottish university. The University of the West of Scotland, to be precise.

Saying that "they are males" is abusive bigotry? In that case, is there any way that anyone could express their opinion that transwomen are transwomen without being called abusive or bigoted?

If senior academics can honestly believe the above is bigoted, what implications does that have for Scottish hate crime legislation in practice?

Link about the bill for those who haven't heard about it: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-53580326

YANBU: "these are males" is not abusive or bigoted to post.

YABU: "these are males" is an abusive and bigoted sentence.

There will be more to the exchange than just this. Also he’s entitled to block who he likes regardless of his job.

Original poster

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 02/02/2022 21:52

@FitAt50

I agree that its not bigoted, maybe they could have said "born male" but not bigoted.

Thank you for answering!

OP posts:

EishetChayil · 02/02/2022 21:54

@FitAt50

You are not going to get much balance on here, mumsnet as a whole is very anti-trans. The majority seem to think they are just pervy men who pretend they want to be women, so they can spy on them in swimming pools or fitting rooms. I have only ever known 2 real trans women and they were lovely and have experience years of abuse.

You most probably won't answer this, but I'm interested to know: in what way is Mumsnet "anti-trans"?

Original poster

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 02/02/2022 21:56

^There will be more to the exchange than just this.
Also he’s entitled to block who he likes regardless of his job.^

Um, you confuse me. I read the entire thread. I can link if you like, but I didn't want to drive more traffic that way. No point in adding to a pile-on. That's why I blurred out part of his username.

And I never said anything about whether he shouldn't be entitled to curate his social media. I'm non-plussed that a Scottish academic thinks "they are male" is bigoted to say!

OP posts:

Original poster

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 02/02/2022 21:56

That's to TheOriginalEmu.

OP posts:

DomesticatedZombie · 02/02/2022 21:58

How in earth is it bigoted to state non controversial fact?
Would he respect students with gc views? Would he treat them equally and fairly?

SickAndTiredAgain · 02/02/2022 21:59

Not the point you’re asking about but I don’t understand his first tweet “most transwomen aren’t men”.
Most? Based on his subsequent tweet I would assume he’d be of the view that all transwomen aren’t men? And others would be of the view that transwomen are men.
What is meant by “most”? Am I being stupid? Who are the transwomen who are men, in his view? I feel like I must be missing something obvious there.

PonyPatter44 · 02/02/2022 21:59

He's probably absolutely terrified of being the next Prof. Stock.

Original poster

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 02/02/2022 22:02

@SickAndTiredAgain

Not the point you’re asking about but I don’t understand his first tweet “most transwomen aren’t men”. Most? Based on his subsequent tweet I would assume he’d be of the view that all transwomen aren’t men? And others would be of the view that transwomen are men. What is meant by “most”? Am I being stupid? Who are the transwomen who are men, in his view? I feel like I must be missing something obvious there.

Yeah, I didn't understand that either. If you can get what he means, please tell me!

twitter.com/JonPowles/status/1488911271344984068?t=O6X6AmbynkwKy_HbRTj5TQ&s=19

OP posts:

Mychitchatdays · 02/02/2022 22:03

The Uws is a real university!! It's a young one just not as aged as some.

The person in question is an idiot though and has many crazy ideas. I don't think he's actually put a foot on the campus. He doesn't reflect the lecturers and campus experience.

ufucoffee · 02/02/2022 22:20

@FitAt50

You are not going to get much balance on here, mumsnet as a whole is very anti-trans. The majority seem to think they are just pervy men who pretend they want to be women, so they can spy on them in swimming pools or fitting rooms. I have only ever known 2 real trans women and they were lovely and have experience years of abuse.

Mumsnet is not anti trans. Some users are just against men saying they are women when they obviously aren't. If some men want to pretend they are women they can, obviously, crack on mate.

ErrolTheDragon · 02/02/2022 22:29

YANBU.
It's rather worrying that a uni vice principal appears not to understand the meanings of the word 'male' and 'bigot'. Saying that transwomen are males is a simple, entirely neutral, objective fact.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 02/02/2022 23:43

He doesn't understand basic biology and he doesn't respect women. Woman is a biological fact. Attempts to define it in any other way in order to look after the feelings of a minority of men are nonsensical not least because you can't actually categorise anything without some degree of stated and shared definitions. A category which means different things to different people is of no use to anyone and achieves nothing. This is a thinly veiled Attempt to remove female rights fir male benefit and either he doesn't care is too absorbed in his own needs to thnk about others. Either way he is incompetent.

NoNever · 02/02/2022 23:48

He’s going to be torn to shreds by saying “most” transwomen are not men. That implies some are.

ErrolTheDragon · 03/02/2022 00:08

@NoNever

He’s going to be torn to shreds by saying “most” transwomen are not men. That implies some are.

Yes... that's a pretty odd thing to say. I wonder if he can provide a definition of 'transwoman' and of 'men' which would enable that to make any sort of logical sense?

montysma1 · 03/02/2022 00:41

Not anti trans.
People can be as trans as they like.
What they cannot do is change sex. It is scientifically impossible to do so.
Stating a biological fact does not make you anti trans.