To ask about Jeremy Corbyn and anti semitism

[TheoriginalLEM]

So having decided to vote labour I had a conversation with a Jewish work colleague who said she couldn't vote for him, hated him even. It took me a few seconds and then i realised why. I said that I had stuck my fingers in my ears and my head in the sand somewhat about this, hoping it was just the media etc.

We didn't get into it as I could see she was uncomfortable.

So can someone tell me if and why he is an anti-semite? It doesn't sit well with me to vote for someone like that but I desperately want the Tories gone and my politics is definitely to the left.

I'm honestly not being goady and I know I could google but i wouldn't know where to start to get an unbiased view

There is rather a lot of solid proof and actual evidence of class bias and social hierarchy based on birth and nothing else in Britain by the way.

Who the hell are you to decide that every single passing image and obscure cross referenced bit of linguistic gameplaying is aimed directly against you?

This is a big country, with a lot of people and a lot of problems. And sometimes, outside viewpoints and perspectives are needed.

Who the hell are you to decide that every single passing image and obscure cross referenced bit of linguistic gameplaying is aimed directly against you?

Do you accuse other ethnic minorities of lying when they call out racism against them? Or is only Jews you have a problem with?

What a fucking racist you are.

Who the hell are you to decide that every single passing image and obscure cross referenced bit of linguistic gameplaying is aimed directly against you?

And for the record, it's because the same dehumanising stereotypes you dismiss as "obscure" were used to justify the murder of 6 million of us IN LIVING MEMORY.

It doesn’t bother me in the slightest if somebody calls me an anti Semite. It means nothing

Wow. Just wow.

And yes that mural is clearly anti-semitic, anyone with half an education or who has a even a superficial acquaintance with 1930s history could see that at twenty paces.

This thread should be exhibit A of the cult of Corbyn and the ridiculous lengths they go to denying so much blatant evidence. What a fucking embarrassment you are.

To be honest, the level of hideous antisemitism on this thread has alarmed me more than anything else that's happened over the last few years. Posters saying they're "proud to be called antisemites", the BBC is "full of Jews", that called a Jewish woman Shylock is just "linguistic games-playing" and if we call it out, then we're being "classist."

The level of gaslighting is unbelievable. I had no idea that antisemitism had taken such a cancerous hold in people who consider themselves to be totally rational.

I'm now seriously considering my - and my family's - future in this country, in a way that I never have before.

So, just to let the antisemites of Mumsnet know, you may well have created five new Israelis tonight. Congratulations.

I'm wondering if any reading this thread are getting the same feeling I did when I encountered a hard Holocaust denier in one of the largest Labour Party supporters' forum on Facebook.

Well said Halleli

There is some appalling attitudes on here, and I don’t know what’s worse- the fact that posters refuse to recognise their prejudices or the fact they are emboldened to be so prejudiced.

@Halleli As a Labour member I am so sorry and ashamed. Solidarity to you and your family.

Do you accuse other ethnic minorities of lying when they call out racism against them?

I have done once. When I watched a black man trying to steal from a shop I worked in, and then when we stopped him it claimed it was because he was black.

It happens. So you can fuck off with your claims of racism until you actually prove it. Racism is discrimination on the basis of irrational prejudice against skin colour. It does not give other groups a free pass to break the law, so it isn't going to give you one either. There are far too many movements and vested interests in shutting viewpoints down at the moment.

I genuinely wanted to look into the antisemitic claims because with the Tories being right wing and the Greens and LibDems going mad I only have Corbyn to vote for, and his economic policies echo things I've been watching and saying for years. The way you are claiming I should just shut up and accept your viewpoint, especially when it is clearly the product of extraordinary luxury, when I know there are vested interests abounding in real life and the internet at the moment is not doing your cause any favours. Have Jews been attacked? Have they been prevented from standing from public office any more than any other groups?

The way you are claiming I should just shut up and accept your viewpoint, especially when it is clearly the product of extraordinary luxury

Luxury? Wtf?

That was possibly unfortunate. I meant, in terms of the apparent suggestions that everyone everywhere in Britain should know the ins and outs of every possible textual reference in every Shakespeare play, and now of every passing modern artist too. Don't be so ridiculous.

To be honest, the level of hideous antisemitism on this thread has alarmed me more than anything else that's happened over the last few years. Posters saying they're "proud to be called antisemites", the BBC is "full of Jews", that called a Jewish woman Shylock is just "linguistic games-playing" and if we call it out, then we're being "classist."

@Halleli the blatant anti- semitism on this thread and on the other thread from a few particularly rabid posters has horrified me.

I'm used to hearing the odd dodgy remark but this is unapologetic. I almost can't bring myself to admit that such a generally woke and liberal population as mumsnet contains people who are happy to publicly air these sentiments. It's terrifying.

Halleli I'm sorry too, it is heartbreaking what is happening. This thread is particularly shocking, I've seen this kind of stuff on twitter but surprised to see it so blatantly on MN.

The way you are claiming I should just shut up and accept your viewpoint, especially when it is clearly the product of extraordinary luxury, when I know there are vested interests abounding in real life and the internet at the moment is not doing your cause any favours.

@ImGoingToBangYourHeadsTogether this really is too much... product of extraordinary luxury... how can you write this without feeling extraordinary shame.

It's disgusting to be honest, people on her are best advert for not voting labour due to anti semitism I've seen.

ImGoingToBangYourHeadsTogether

We all know what you meant.

"You can fuck off with your claims of racism until you actually prove it".

It is 20 years since the Stephen Lawrence enquiry and you write that. Jesus wept.

The greatest shock, as others have mentioned, is that a liberal left leaning group will, when the right buttons are pressed, come out with the most appalling visceral prejudice. This is happening on Labour party discussion groups, CLPs, it happened at the Labour conference, and God knows where else. It is radiacalisation and it is terrifying.

Absolutely horrified by many of these posts.
It has illustrated the depths to which some Corbyn supporters will plummet.
Do you actually think you would persuade decent human beings to vote for Labour after spouting such offensive, uninformed rubbish ?

I’m not Jewish but I offer support and solidarity to British Jews.
Please know that I would never stand by and let people say such things in real life without challenging them.

ImGoingToBangYourHeadsTogether

"There are far too many movements and vested interests in shutting viewpoints down at the moment".

Who? You are annonymous and safe and you have a large audience here. Name them.

It's a whole ton of evidence. In isolation, perhaps could be explained away as an error of judgement, not understanding, not fully exploring, making a mistake, not supporting Jewish Mps, being friends with the wrong people etc etc and could give Corbyn the benefit of the doubt.

But again and again and again and again.

C'mon. It's ridiculous now. It would probably stick in a court of law - I think it's now beyond reasonable doubt. But for someone asking to be PM? For me to vote for him? Then it's the balance of probabilities and no reasonable person can fail to see that it's more likely than not that Corbyn is anti-semitic.

Who? You are annonymous and safe and you have a large audience here. Name them.

Seriously? On the internet? It's well known that international trolls are out seeking to destabilise the west. On top of that we have our well-off middle classes shutting down all hope of progression for those of us who don't agree with every oh-so-liberal word that they say. I do know of councillors and MPs who've been forced to step down: they're white working class men.

And thanks for picking up that use of the word luxury. It was, as I have explained, a reference to the high expectations of high cultural background knowledge. Some of us have been far too busy trying to support our families earn a living since before our teens to really attain that sort of background.

And no I'm not trying to persuade you lot to vote Labour. I was trying to find out as much truth as I could for myself. I've found nothing on here.

Have Jews been attacked?

Yes.

www.hertsad.co.uk/news/anti-semitic-assault-in-st-albans-1-6200818

www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/two-arrests-in-two-days-for-antisemitic-incidents-in-london-bethnal-green-and-hackney-1.486002

www.theguardian.com/news/2019/aug/01/antisemitic-incidents-in-britain-up-10-on-last-year-finds-charity

There's a reason my children walk past armed police when they enter their school.

Have they been prevented from standing from public office any more than any other groups?

Out of the 4 female Jewish Labour MPs elected at the last election, 2 have been driven out of the party by antisemites and another had to fend off a deselection attempt.

What message do you think that sends to any Jewish young people who might want to be an MP some day?

Dear Jews, it is the product of extraordinary luxury that you are able to recognise the antisemitism in ‘Shylock the Jew’, one of Shakespeare’s most famous characters, an villainous money-lender who wants his pound of flesh. It’s also extraordinary luxury that you are able to recognise antisemitism in the depiction of Jews as the New World Order, secretly controlling the world on the backs of the poor.

How lucky you are to have such knowledge, that there are groups of people who hate you. The knowledge that Jews have been persecuted across history. The Holocaust being in living memory and touching all of you in some way.

Bloody hell some people need to take their heads out of their arses and learn some history. Maybe take a look at the world around them. And stop being so fucking ignorant.