To ask about Jeremy Corbyn and anti semitism

[TheoriginalLEM]

So having decided to vote labour I had a conversation with a Jewish work colleague who said she couldn't vote for him, hated him even. It took me a few seconds and then i realised why. I said that I had stuck my fingers in my ears and my head in the sand somewhat about this, hoping it was just the media etc.

We didn't get into it as I could see she was uncomfortable.

So can someone tell me if and why he is an anti-semite? It doesn't sit well with me to vote for someone like that but I desperately want the Tories gone and my politics is definitely to the left.

I'm honestly not being goady and I know I could google but i wouldn't know where to start to get an unbiased view

Oh well played. But hang on!! What about the treatment of Arabs who are NON CITIZENS?? Oops!! I think that would be the very DEFINITION of genocide.

Yes yes. Oh sorry, we are all imbeciles and cannot tell our arsed from our elbows. Drop this tired old card, noone is buying this bs anymore.

I said earlier Corbyn supported a two state solution but describes himself as an anti Zionist. I think I was mistaken to say he identifies as an anti Zionist as if he supports a two state solution which I have seen him in print quoting as saying then he can’t be anti Zionist as supporting a two state solution includes supporting a Jewish state.

And that Israel is the only country in the region to give full equal citizenship rights to Arabs and Jews

I should say in light of centuries of the persecution of Jewish people and the genocide of Jewish people in the Holocaust and Israel has existed now for nearly 70 years I support the existence of the Jewish state of Israel and the two state solution. The increase in Jewish settlements in occupied land is though making a two state solution harder to achieve.

It is true on paper that there are million or so Arabs in Israel who have Israeli citizenship and on paper equal rights. However, there has been research that Israeli Arab towns and villages receive less funding for their schools, hospitals etc. Also I saw a writer point out that although there are Arab MPs in the Knesset, it is generally agreed that it would be extremely unlikely an Arab MP would ever be voted in as Prime Minister.

The pyramid and eye is a symbol of freemasonry isn't it?

And the New World Order. The conspiracy theory that there’s a small group of global elites who secretly control the world. This often overlaps with the popular anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that Jews secretly control the world. See ‘lots of Jews at the BBC’ from upthread.

Are the people around the table supposed to look like Jews or something?

Yes.

The Pyramid eye is the eye of providence, its on US dollars and represents the eye of god

Not on that mural it doesn’t.

Oh well played. But hang on!! What about the treatment of Arabs who are NON CITIZENS?? Oops!! I think that would be the very DEFINITION of genocide.

Nope. When a genocide occurs, a population goes down.

The Palestinian population has increased from about 750,000 in 1914 to 4.8 million today.

Do you want to know what a genocide looks like? Over 70 years after the Holocaust, there are still fewer Jews worldwide than there were in 1939.

One of these things is not like the other...

I said earlier Corbyn supported a two state solution but describes himself as an anti Zionist. I think I was mistaken to say he identifies as an anti Zionist as if he supports a two state solution which I have seen him in print quoting as saying then he can’t be anti Zionist as supporting a two state solution includes supporting a Jewish state

Corbyn is absolutely anti-Zionist.

Because, you see, he and all those with similar views to him say they support a two state solution AND the so-called 'right of return' for all Palestinians (i.e. allowing any Palestinian whose ancestors multiple generations ago lived in what is now Israel to move to Israel).

That means two majority Palestinian states, and no Jewish state.

‘It’s interesting that there are a lot of Jews in the media,- particularly the bbc! ...’

Interesting

Really?

"Being anti zionist does not make one anti semitic."
There's criticism of Israeli foreign and /or domestic policy. And there's antizionism. Which seeks the destruction of Israel. Those two things are different. Pretending they aren't is , at best, sloppy thinking.
Where do you think all the Jews in Israel should go, if you are an anti-Zionist?
It should make you sick to even contemplate it.

Thank you for your patience. I take it that there is evidence elsewhere that this artist uses symbols in this kind of way?
Israel is scrutinised because it is at the centre of conflict and receives western support. I admit I would like to see Saudi Arabia thus scrutinised as well.

JC isn’t an anti Semite. The Conservative party however is rife with Islamophobia and this seems to go unchallenged.

Rhododendrons the right of return of Palestinians after less than 100 years away from their ancestral homeland appears no less strong than the right of return of Jews after 1500 years, or that of the celts to return to Lloegyr. All land is originally stolen. Question is what the hell do we do now.

Fuck it, I'm done, it's not good for my blood pressure. I don't think I need to add any more, I think the comments on this thread speak for themselves and actually demonstrate the rise of acceptance of anti semitism. I hope it's useful for anyone who wasn't fully aware of the issues.

Totally agree. Some of the comments I’ve seen on MN about this have been truly shocking and upsetting. It makes me wonder whether I should continue posting here anymore TBH.

I’m just going to say it. The Israeli gov has been slaughtering the Palestinians for years like a fish in a barrel. The majority of these have been children. I don’t care if if I’m accused of being an anti Semite for saying this because criticism of Israel doesn’t equate.

What happens now? Well the Israelis and Palestinians need to live in peace together, stop settlement building and throwing Palestinians out of there homes and give them or what’s left of their borders.

@Idonthaveaname35 , criticising Israeli policy isn't what makes people antisemitic. Nor does criticising the use of human shields to launch rockets to attack Israel make you anti-Palestinian.

@gribbie - reason I put Palestine in “ is because some people refuse to acknowledge Israel’s existence and call it (ie whole of Palestinian occupied territories, Gaza Strip, current state of Israel) Palestine instead. So I was referring to these types of motions at Labour Party conferences which are often on what they call Palestine as they refuse to acknowledge existence of Israel

@bellinisurge I’m no fan of hamas I think they are idiots. They play into the hands of the Israeli gov so they can justify their disproportionate attacks.

@rhodidendron, please go and look up 'genocide'.

So, Holocaust. Why not take it up with its creators. I.e. German Nazis. Not one Arab was involved in it. 20 million Soviets died in the same war. That's why its called The Second World War. Stop twisting reality to fit your brief. The growing dislike and criticism of Israeli policies is largely perpetuated by this economy with the truth
Stop assuming people are dim. Or blind. Or that being a Jew entitles to be treated differently, preferentially, or gives you carte blanche to throw out international law, and universal human values, out the window, for your own MATERIAL gain.

The Muslim Brotherhood were friends and enablers of the Nazis and that Hitler saw supporting them as a great way to attack the Jews AND destabilise the British Empire in order to undermine the Allies.

I take it that there is evidence elsewhere that this artist uses symbols in this kind of way?

Yes, there’s a guy in the mural holding the sign saying ‘The New World Order is the enemy of humanity’.

.. And as soon ANYBODY dares to criticise the killing, the stealing of land, the appalling, inhuman treatment of the population of occupied territories, there are hysterical shrieks: ANTI SEMITE!!! No, seriously. Stop.

@bellin, haha really?? What are you smoking? Do you think this is a strong, valid argument?? Oh dear.