Shutdowns, military pullouts, and resignations: it’s Christmas and Trump thread 89

[TheClaws]

It’s chaos in Trump’s world, more so than usual, with #TrumpResign trending in Twitter after a number of key debacles: the pull-out of US troops from Syria, the resignation of General Jim Mattis, and the shutdown of the government over Christmas due to bipartisan disagreement over wall funding. (Those are just 3 issues.) The next few weeks will be rocky.

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3442038-But-When-the-president-does-it-that-means-it-is-not-illegal-Trump-thread-LXXXVIII

This is what is involved (Amy Patrick).

Lachlan Markay
@lachlan
So that $20M border wall GoFundMe campaign? Its organizer now hopes to use the money to finance a new nonprofit. Its board includes Kris Kobach, David Clarke, Erik Prince, and Tom Tancredo

www.thedailybeast.com/gofundme-border-wall-campaign-implodes-turns-to-kris-kobach-and-sheriff-clarke-for-new-non-profit

“We expect we’re going to be able to construct the wall so much more efficiently than the government,” Stockton said.

They're going to need to be more efficient than the government if they reckon they can make $20 million do the work of $20 billion.

Senate intel committee grilling ex-Trump campaign members in Russia probe

Investigators asked former Trump aide Sam Nunberg about the president's business dealings and how he formulated his policies toward Moscow.

www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/senate-intel-committee-grilling-ex-trump-campaign-members-russia-probe-n957906

???

edition.cnn.com/2019/01/11/politics/tulsi-gabbard-van-jones/index.html

Trump-Russia-FBI

www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/us/politics/fbi-trump-russia-inquiry.html

Here:

'WASHINGTON — In the days after President Trump fired James B. Comey as F.B.I. director, law enforcement officials became so concerned by the president’s behavior that they began investigating whether he had been working on behalf of Russia against American interests, according to former law enforcement officials and others familiar with the investigation.

The inquiry carried explosive implications. Counterintelligence investigators had to consider whether the president’s own actions constituted a possible threat to national security. Agents also sought to determine whether Mr. Trump was knowingly working for Russia or had unwittingly fallen under Moscow’s influence.

The investigation the F.B.I. opened into Mr. Trump also had a criminal aspect, which has long been publicly known: whether his firing of Mr. Comey constituted obstruction of justice.

Agents and senior F.B.I. officials had grown suspicious of Mr. Trump’s ties to Russia during the 2016 campaign but held off on opening an investigation into him, the people said, in part because they were uncertain how to proceed with an inquiry of such sensitivity and magnitude. But the president’s activities before and after Mr. Comey’s firing in May 2017, particularly two instances in which Mr. Trump tied the Comey dismissal to the Russia investigation, helped prompt the counterintelligence aspect of the inquiry, the people said.

The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, took over the inquiry into Mr. Trump when he was appointed, days after F.B.I. officials opened it. That inquiry is part of Mr. Mueller’s broader examination of how Russian operatives interfered in the 2016 election and whether any Trump associates conspired with them. It is unclear whether Mr. Mueller is still pursuing the counterintelligence matter, and some former law enforcement officials outside the investigation have questioned whether agents overstepped in opening it.

The criminal and counterintelligence elements were coupled together into one investigation, former law enforcement officials said in interviews in recent weeks, because if Mr. Trump had ousted the head of the F.B.I. to impede or even end the Russia investigation, that was both a possible crime and a national security concern. The F.B.I.’s counterintelligence division handles national security matters.

If the president had fired Mr. Comey to stop the Russia investigation, the action would have been a national security issue because it naturally would have hurt the bureau’s effort to learn how Moscow interfered in the 2016 election and whether any Americans were involved, according to James A. Baker, who served as F.B.I. general counsel until late 2017. He privately testified in October before House investigators who were examining the F.B.I.’s handling of the full Russia inquiry.'

Companion piece:

www.lawfareblog.com/what-if-obstruction-was-collusion-new-york-timess-latest-bombshell

Expect some hissy-fit tweets about that NYT piece in about 7 hours or so ...

While we’re at at it, let’s allow second son to be in charge of the UN, even if Daddy thinks it’s terrible, and Don Jr. can lead and transform the NRA into a global peacekeeping militia? That’ll work!

Tom Steyer
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7h7 hours ago
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This is among the most ridiculous proposals I have ever heard. Nepotism is just another form of corruption, so I am not surprised, but the level of absurdity is breathtaking. www.businessinsider.com/ivanka-trump-world-bank-candidate-president-report-2019-1 …

Be great if they were getting paid, too.

The Hill
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23m23 minutes ago
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Vice President Mike Pence: "As the president has said many times, a country without borders isn't a country. And each and every day the men and women of U.S. Customs and Border Patrol see to the territorial integrity of the United States of America." hill.cm/DNSEyxX

I really doubt this.

The Hill
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11m11 minutes ago
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.@VP Mike Pence: "The reality is today we have about 60,000 people attempting to come into our country illegally every single month." hill.cm/DNSEyxX

The lawfare piece is fascinating, lion. It brings, as Ben Wittes notes, a very different perspective to what Mueller is doing.

It was about Russia. Full stop. It was always about Russia. And it still is about Russia.

I can see this sending us down some frustrating rabbit holes in the coming months.
This possibility, of course, raises a different legal puzzle, which is whether and under what circumstances the president can be a national security investigative subject of his own FBI given that it is ultimately he who defines national security threats for the executive branch. But that’s a question for another day.

I'm frustrated by the way the Dems are allowing Trump to use Wall and Border Security interchangeably and erratically so that the facts about a stupid,wasteful wall are blurred by the emotional issues around Border Security. So I found this thread interesting.

Dear @SpeakerPelosi @HouseDemocrats @SenSchumer @SenateDems,
You are in a semantic war with a Russian asset, trained for 30+ yrs in propaganda tactics. He was also raised at the knee of mob bosses, who were the slickest liars in history.
Some advice... (cont)

twitter.com/LincolnsBible/status/1083344199926218753

Also just read the Ben Wittes Lawfare piece - very interesting.
Trump and his spawn will not like the NYT headline!

Fernand R. Amandi
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@AmandiOnAir
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We are so long past whether this is about the @gop vs. @TheDemocrats

This is about patriots vs. traitors.

The current @POTUS @realDonaldTrump is a Russian asset who works for Putin.

As @MalcolmNance says, “this is treason in plain sight”.

HE. MUST. GO.

I am now hoping that since as of today this is the biggest and longliest government closure ever in the whole history of the USA, Trump will rest on his laurels and stop it. After all, he broke that record, right? He doesn't have to go on any more after he's done that.

Oh yes, he's had the biggest and best of shutdowns. He likes to be biggest at it all.
The poor families who are struggling, it must be awful.

'the shutdown has cost the US economy $3.6bn, a toll that will exceed Trump’s funding demand in two weeks’ time.'

Total madness....

Plaid bunnies abound:

Donald J. Trump
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@realDonaldTrump
4 hours ago
'Wow, just learned in the Failing New York Times that the corrupt former leaders of the FBI, almost all fired or forced to leave the agency for some very bad reasons, opened up an investigation on me, for no reason & with no proof, after I fired Lyin’ James Comey, a total sleaze!'

4 hours ago
'...Funny thing about James Comey. Everybody wanted him fired, Republican and Democrat alike. After the rigged & botched Crooked Hillary investigation, where she was interviewed on July 4th Weekend, not recorded or sworn in, and where she said she didn’t know anything (a lie),....'

4 hours ago
'....the FBI was in complete turmoil (see N.Y. Post) because of Comey’s poor leadership and the way he handled the Clinton mess (not to mention his usurpation of powers from the Justice Department). My firing of James Comey was a great day for America. He was a Crooked Cop......'

3 hours ago
'.....who is being totally protected by his best friend, Bob Mueller, & the 13 Angry Democrats - leaking machines who have NO interest in going after the Real Collusion (and much more) by Crooked Hillary Clinton, her Campaign, and the Democratic National Committee. Just Watch!'

3 hours ago
I have been FAR tougher on Russia than Obama, Bush or Clinton. Maybe tougher than any other President. At the same time, & as I have often said, getting along with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing. I fully expect that someday we will have good relations with Russia again!'

2 hours ago
'Lyin’ James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Peter S and his lover, agent Lisa Page, & more, all disgraced and/or fired and caught in the act. These are just some of the losers that tried to do a number on your President. Part of the Witch Hunt. Remember the “insurance policy?” This is it!'

2 hours ago
'Democrats should come back to Washington and work to end the Shutdown, while at the same time ending the horrible humanitarian crisis at our Southern Border. I am in the White House waiting for you!'

2 hours ago
'23% of Federal inmates are illegal immigrants. Border arrests are up 240%. In the Great State of Texas, between 2011 & 2018, there were a total of 292,000 crimes by illegal aliens, 539 murders, 32,000 assaults, 3,426 sexual assaults and 3000 weapons charges. Democrats come back!'

1 hour ago
'Democrats could solve the Shutdown in 15 minutes! Call your Dem Senator or Congresswoman/man. Tell them to get it done! Humanitarian Crisis.'

19m19 minutes ago
'I just watched a Fake reporter from the Amazon Washington Post say the White House is “chaotic, there does not seem to be a strategy for this Shutdown. There is no plan.” The Fakes always like talking Chaos, there is NONE. In fact, there’s almost nobody in the W.H. but me, and...'

10 minutes ago
'....I do have a plan on the Shutdown. But to understand that plan you would have to understand the fact that I won the election, and I promised safety and security for the American people. Part of that promise was a Wall at the Southern Border. Elections have consequences!'

2 hours ago
'23% of Federal inmates are illegal immigrants. Border arrests are up 240%. In the Great State of Texas, between 2011 & 2018, there were a total of 292,000 crimes by illegal aliens, 539 murders, 32,000 assaults, 3,426 sexual assaults and 3000 weapons charges. Democrats come back!'

Where does he get these figures?

Does anyone have, or know where I can find, the real figures for these things? And how many of the "crimes by illegal aliens" were people being arrested at the border for trying to become refugees/immigrants? How many were children?

I do know that in just one of those years, 2017, there were 1,412 murders in Texas, so the illegal aliens aren't doing all that well really when it comes to killing people off.

Oh, and also in 2017, immigrants made up 22% of the federal prison population, people waiting to be deported either for entering the country illegally or for the crime of existing while not being born American, but not for committing any crime which would have got an American citizen imprisoned. By June 2018 that had risen to 30%, according to Jeff Sessions.

The best I can find is at www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2016/aug/25/lamar-smith/mostly-false-lamar-smith-claim-one-third-federal-i/
and there are constant difficulties about actual numbers as against percentages. Also it is rather out of date.

In case anyone’s interested, I think there’s a profile of Nancy Pelosi on R4 at 7pm. They didn’t say it was her, but who else is the “official” opposition to the great git?

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!! Will someone please 'gag' his fingers!!!

Yes,lion, plaid rabbits of many tartan patterns! With a few polka dot and paisley bunnies thrown in for good measure!

Thanks for the Pelosi tip.

Those smart new lawyers must be wondering why no one has the sense to taser him when he reaches for the phone.

Sarah Kendzior
@sarahkendzior
You should be less shocked by the smoking gun than by the fact that the gun is still in POTUS's hand.

It's smoking because he's shooting our country to death.

It's smoking because no one will take the gun.

It's smoking because the people tasked with protecting you reload it.

www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-s-firing-comey-triggered-fbi-counterintelligence-investigation-here-s-ncna958001