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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to stop paying rent?

53 replies

FamilyDrama · 25/06/2018 11:31

Will try and keep this short and to the point but there is needless to say some backstory.

I live with my elderly father who has Alzheimers. I have 5 other brothers and a sister. They are all married. I am not but have a long term partner.

My father relies on me quite heavily and gets upset if I make plans to see my girlfriend or stay over at her house. I do all the groceries and spend time with him, take him for lunch and trips out during the day. I work . He is at the minute quite safe to leave overnight, but this upsets him a lot so I only stay at my GF's one night a week when i tell him I am working a late shift to avoid arguments.

There has been a falling out in the family over money, one of my brothers and my sister are the attorneys for my father and they have control of his money. They won't let him have a bank card anymore.

There have been some issues raised about my late uncles estate which was also managed by the same siblings. large sums of money had been taken and used for their personal gain and this has made things difficult in the family as they refuse to discuss dads finances with anyone.

The house dad and I live in is in the joint names of me and my siblings, and until the issue of money being missing came up I paid £500 a month into dad's account for my board. I stopped doing this last year and have no got a solicitors letter from my brother and sister saying I owe them £7000 for back rent.

AIBU to say i won't pay this because i am part owner of the house, i have no idea what they are doing with they money, if i didn't stay at the house a full time carer would have to be employed?

Should i get a lawyer?

OP posts:

readyforapummelling · 25/06/2018 11:41

Absolutely get legal advice. If your Bro has solicitors involved then you need to seek advice too.

Did you sign a tenancy agreement?

Thehop · 25/06/2018 11:42

Definitely get a solicitor.

halfacup · 25/06/2018 11:44

Report them to the office of the public guardian they will investigate. www.gov.uk/report-concern-about-attorney-deputy

readyforapummelling · 25/06/2018 11:44

Is there anything in writing to say that you agreed to pay £500 a month rent? And as pp says, report to the office of the public guardian and seek legal advice.

Singlenotsingle · 25/06/2018 11:50

Quite complicated, eh? I can't see that you should be paying what amounts to rent unless there is a formal written agreement that you should do so. What about the other 4 brothers? Where do they come into it?

Theres obviously more involved here than you have time to explain, so yes, you need professional advice.

Original poster

FamilyDrama · 25/06/2018 11:51

When i initially moved in dad had just been diagnosed, so I wasn't living there as his carer or anything, so I paid into the house because for my own reasons it was better for me to be there. The last couple of years his health has really gone downhill, whereas I have met a nice girl who I am engaged too and want to have a life with, but I can't leave home because he is dependant on me now.

There was no rental agreement or anything like that and as I say I am living there now primarily to help with dad, if I could move out tomorrow to live with my girlfriend I would leap at the chance, but his illness has made him very selfish in a way and if I try and see her instead of spending time with him he cry's and gets upset and then phones me constantly.

My other siblings have no issue with me being in the house, partly because it saves them doing it, but also as I say, technically I own a portion of the house and if none of my other siblings want rent money then do i just pay a 1/7th share to my brother. Since it isn't dads house why would he be getting the rent anyway?

OP posts:

BlueBug45 · 25/06/2018 11:56

You need legal advice as you need to be recognised as your dad's carer from the time you moved in with him.

If you get yourself in any situation again where you pay rent and think you should stop, never just stop paying rent until you have had legal advice.

readyforapummelling · 25/06/2018 11:56

I would be inclined to think that if there is nothing anywhere in writing that suggests you agreed to pay £500pm then I don't see how they can legally obtain £7k from you in back-payments. I think they are just trying it on, an agreement means jack shit unless it's in writing and in a contract, its unenforceable but you will need to contact a solicitor to respond to their solicitor.

PaintedHorizons · 25/06/2018 11:58

It is clear that you shouldn't be paying rent, (morally). Legal advice will clarify but it is worrying.

Does your father get carer's allowance for you? Or attendance allowance? Do you have a tenancy agreement?

You should be paid for your "caring" if they are going to charge you rent. (I had live-in carers for Mum and they cost around £1000 per week.)

This is a horrible situation.

agedknees · 25/06/2018 11:59

You sound a lovely person, putting your dad before your own happiness.

Please get legal advice.

You could always invoice nasty siblings for your caring services to your dad!!!

Original poster

FamilyDrama · 25/06/2018 12:00

You can probably tell that family relations are not brilliant. My other brothers want to take things to court to have the attorneys removed but I have no idea of the process for that sort of thing. I am also worried that legal advice will be really expensive.

I only stopped paying because it came to light that they had been mismanaging money, but also I am happy to move out, but don't because of the impact it will have on dad.

OP posts:

agedknees · 25/06/2018 12:00

Snap painted horizons.

Mooster62 · 25/06/2018 12:03

Whilst your siblings might say that you need to pay rent as you are living there, you are also acting as an unpaid carer for your father. You are also sacrificing living with your girlfriend whilst they are happily living with their spouses leaving you to do all the donkey work. I know he is your father and you should be commended for all that you are doing but they are also his children and should pull their weight. I think you should see a solicitor for advice. Regarding the £7,000 bill - I suggest you tell them that you will happily pay what you owe, once they deduct the cost of a full time carer from that amount. If they are not willing to do so then perhaps you can make a schedule for them to cover a night of the week each with your father so that you can only take your fair share. Good luck!

GreatBigHooandToodleloo · 25/06/2018 12:03

Our local age concern charity shop has an advice service. This or the CAB is a good starting point.

To enforce any back payment your siblings would have to take you to court.

Imsosceptical · 25/06/2018 12:04

This is complicated and as your brother is a lawyer you also need a lawyer to defend you and your rights. Morals and ethics are another thing entirely and surly there needs to be some recognition of the care you provide and the impact this has on your ability to live the life you want to, plus it seems your siblings clearly depend on you to provide this care so that they can continue to live the lives they want to.... sending my best wishes to you and much respect, you sound like a lovely, caring person, your siblings should appreciate this x

Original poster

FamilyDrama · 25/06/2018 12:06

There is nothing legal in place for a tenancy, but as I am technically a part owner of the house the tenancy would have to be between me and my other siblings, so the money wouldn't go to dad anyway if that's what we were doing.

I don't know about his benefits or allowances because none of us get told any information. Dad used to have his everyday bank account with a debit card and sometimes if we were out and about he would have wanted to buy us a coffee or at times he wanted to put petrol in my car because I take him on trips but now i've been told I shouldn't have done that and if i want to claim expenses to give them receipts.

I obviously don't care about the cost of a coffee, but it's what he wants to do, and I don't think they understand how disruptive things can be or how difficult he can be at times. He can become very childlike and maybe a little manipulative in a way if things don't go his way. It is just part of the illness though and not his fault.

OP posts:

Imsosceptical · 25/06/2018 12:06

PS a live in carer would earn a lot more than 500 a month, maybe they owe you a significant amount of money....

GabriellaMontez · 25/06/2018 12:07

I agree about getting legal advice and looking into having power of attorney removed.

Are you sure you want to live there as your dad's full time carer? This could go in for years in an exhausting and deteriorating situation while your life is on hold.

Might it be worth finding a more balanced solution for you at this point?

Original poster

FamilyDrama · 25/06/2018 12:12

As bad as it sounds I really don't want to live there full time. I just know he will take it really badly if I move out. I really want to have a life with my girlfriend and hoped we could get married in a few years time. I also have a son from my previous relationship who has lived abroad with his mum for the last 12 years but has recently moved back to the area. He is 16 and I would love for him to be able to come and stay with me in the evenings so we could hang out but again, that's not at all possible in my current situation, partly because my dad can be very rude to anyone who he thinks is taking up my time, including my son.

ideally I would be able to move out and rent someplace close to him my girlfiend and my son, but at the minute I am sort of trapped with living with him. Its just a bit upsetting because they have obviously made it out like I am freeloading on my elderly dad. There isn't any benefit for me to staying there except that it makes dads life easier.

OP posts:

Bombardier25966 · 25/06/2018 12:14

an agreement means jack shit unless it's in writing and in a contract, its unenforceable but you will need to contact a solicitor to respond to their solicitor.

Absolute nonsense, an oral agreement is just as valid, albeit more difficult to evidence. However in this case, given that the OP was already paying rent, a contract would be evidenced by custom and practice.

Poor advice can be very dangerous, please think before misleading people.

OP it is not clear on what basis you and your siblings own the house, and what the intention was when the property was purchased or transferred to you. You do need to take legal advice if you cannot come to a mutual agreement, but be aware that this is not something that can be resolved in half an hour so may be costly.

if i didn't stay at the house a full time carer would have to be employed?

In legal terms this liability does not fall on the siblings personally, except in their role as having PoA. You need to separate the personal rights of the siblings (and yourself), and their "professional" responsibility for his financial affairs.

This is far too complex for a forum, and as evidenced above, you could end up in more of a mess if you follow some of the "advice" given.

Butterflyrosebud · 25/06/2018 12:15

I don’t have any further advice to add but just want to say your siblings sound absolutely horrible and you should be proud of yourself for the way you have helped your Dad. Don’t be afraid to put yourself first though if you decide to move in with partner- it can be a difficult transition but longer term a lot of older people do really well with carers or in a residential setting.

ReanimatedSGB · 25/06/2018 12:16

You need expert advice - both with regard to money, and to getting help for your father. It sounds like there is a possibility one or more of your brothers is defrauding the rest of the family, including your father, and that needs to be stopped. Also, it might be appropriate to look for at least some part time paid care for him - there may be something available via the LA/the NHS, but it might be possible to sort out a family agreement that some of the family money should be spent on professional care rather than it just being dumped on you. There may be benefits available (OK, current political climate makes this a bit unlikely but it is still worth investigating). As PP have said: talk to Age Concern or maybe the CAB or the LA.

Singlenotsingle · 25/06/2018 12:26

Did I see somewhere that your brother is a solicitor? If so, this means he knows what the law is, is relying on you not to know, and can pull the wool over your eyes ie bluff you.

You can find a lawyer can say something, determined and confidently -and everyone will believe them!

AtomicGlitterBomb · 25/06/2018 12:28

So who is actually financially supporting your father?
Who is paying the utility bills? the mortgage? buying food?

Singlenotsingle · 25/06/2018 12:31

You could write to the brother/sister combo and say that in view of the £7000 "bill" you are now moving out. They will need either to put DH into a nursing home, or pay for a live-in carer. (Just a bluff of your own, see what happens!)

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