AIBU to stop paying rent?

[FamilyDrama]

Will try and keep this short and to the point but there is needless to say some backstory.

I live with my elderly father who has Alzheimers. I have 5 other brothers and a sister. They are all married. I am not but have a long term partner.

My father relies on me quite heavily and gets upset if I make plans to see my girlfriend or stay over at her house. I do all the groceries and spend time with him, take him for lunch and trips out during the day. I work . He is at the minute quite safe to leave overnight, but this upsets him a lot so I only stay at my GF's one night a week when i tell him I am working a late shift to avoid arguments.

There has been a falling out in the family over money, one of my brothers and my sister are the attorneys for my father and they have control of his money. They won't let him have a bank card anymore.

There have been some issues raised about my late uncles estate which was also managed by the same siblings. large sums of money had been taken and used for their personal gain and this has made things difficult in the family as they refuse to discuss dads finances with anyone.

The house dad and I live in is in the joint names of me and my siblings, and until the issue of money being missing came up I paid £500 a month into dad's account for my board. I stopped doing this last year and have no got a solicitors letter from my brother and sister saying I owe them £7000 for back rent.

AIBU to say i won't pay this because i am part owner of the house, i have no idea what they are doing with they money, if i didn't stay at the house a full time carer would have to be employed?

Should i get a lawyer?

You can't put your son at the bottom of the pile.
You need to start make changes now.

I pay the utilities out of my account because I don't have access to his money, and to be fair the bills are really very minimal. The weekly shop was previously just paid for with his card but now we don't have access to it so I would assume I am supposed to buy these.

Brother isn't a lawyer but he has had a lawyer send me a letter. I don't know whether he pays for this but probably it is more likely he puts it down as an expense or pays from dads money.

Like i say, initially I paid into the house because I lived there for my benefit, it;;s just that as his illness has progressed the tables have turned a little bit. The irony is I left home at 17 and this brother lived with my dad rent free until he got married at 30. I doubt he sees any problem with that though

I have a really good relationship with my boy and his mum. Our relationship just didn't work out and I moved back here for work, but saw them often. My son is really mature and undertanding of the situation, I just wish we could have those sort of father son watching the footy or playing his games thing in the evenings sort of times now. Sometimes he will come and hang out at my girlfriends who has a daughter the same sort of age, but it would be better to have one on one time more.

Do you mean that your siblings have power of attorney for your father? Is it registered at the office of the public guardian?
Presumably your father appointed them ( you cant just appoint yourself)

If they have Deputyship for him ( rather than POA) They do have to account for every penny ( and send in annual accounts) which was get difficult when the person still spends of their own voilition, as in your petrol. They should , however give him a regular amount ( petty cash/pocket money, call it what you will) for odds and ends.

I do think you should pay something towards bills etc. Is £500 a month fair? Thats for you to know. Dad presumably pays full council tax with you living there, for instance.

There has been a falling out in the family over money, one of my brothers and my sister are the attorneys for my father and they have control of his money. They won't let him have a bank card anymore

Ok, so when you say your siblings “are attorneys” you don’t mean they are lawyers? I know it’s more of an american usage.

Do you mean they have power of attorney so they have control over your dad’s affairs should he not have capacity?

So. Does he have capacity? Can he make his own decisions? If you are his main carer it would make more sense for you to have poa. Who is currently paying the bills? Food, electric etc?

From the sounds of it the agreement wasn’t rent but a contribution to costs. If your siblings have paid for all your food and utilities out of their own pockets then they may have a point on the 7k.

I think you need to get together with your other siblings and get this sorted. Legal advice too.

I'm unclear as to how many of you (siblings) there are. But as I understand it there are Brother1 and Sister who have the PoA and are being jackasses, and possibly illegally spending your father's money having (possibly) done the same to your Uncle's estate. And then there is you, and at least 2 'other brothers'?

There are several elements to this issue and you definitely need legal advice.

Firstly you and your 'other brothers' need to unite and get legal advice together as a united unit. You should as part of this seek advice regarding;

1. your residency situation and the claim for back rent.
2. The mishandling of your Uncle's estate
3. The suspected mishandling of your fathers finances
4. The removal of Power of Attorney and creation of new PoA.

It is a very complex situation legally but you would be in the strongest position if you combined your goals with those of your 'other brothers' and sorted it all out once and for all. Bear in mind that even if you come to some sort of agreement with your Borther and Sister, with them in control of your father's finances it doesn't look like your father is going to be well cared for and you have no safeguard against anything like this happening again.

Good Luck. There is no doubt that you are morally in the right here, but you will need legal advice in order to come out of it legally in the right.

To clarify..sorry if it's all come out a bit jumbled.

There are 7 of us in total. The house was transferred into our names about 10 years ago presumably for tax reasons but I don't know much about that side of things because I was living a strange life at that time. My mother died just after my sister was born and there was a medical negligence settlement which I would assume is still invested someplace.

1 brother and 1 sister have a registered power of attorney. They were appointed as attorneys at some point in the past by my dad. I can understand why they would have been appointed over me or my other brothers at the time. There was obviously no notion that they had been acting inappropriately with another relatives finances until last year when he died.

The other brothers don't know about the back rent demand at the minute but are generally unhappy about the attorneys acting because of what has come to light.

@Bombardier25966

Yes it would show in custom and practice however he was paying the money into his fathers account, not his brothers. Oral contracts might be valid but rarely enforceable. Especially when a son is a live in carer for his disabled father, what is stopping OP from sending his brothers solicitor a letter saying they have an oral contract in place for paid caring services at the cost of £1000 a month?
That's about as enforceable as the non existent oral contract they have in place regarding the rent, as he is caring for his father in custom and practice.

The OP said nothing had been agreed, he paid rent for his own peace of mind, so if there is nothing in writing stating otherwise then I imagine he isn't about to be sued for £7k for living in a house he partly owns.

Then you write to the Office of the public guardian ( OPG) and tell them of your concerns, with evidence of their activity.

If they are removed as POA, someone will have to apply for deputyship, POA cannot be passed from one to another.

Deputyship is far more stringent than POA.
Not making you aware of your fathers finance wont be considered wrongdoing- they they are responsible, you aren't. You actually have to right to know what he has and hasn't got. They should, however pays his bills.

Please seek legal advice especially if you think there’s a chance the siblings with power of attorney are abusing it. There are strict rules about what they can do with your father’s money. Unfortunately power of attorney fraud is a big problem that is only going to get bigger as the population lives longer and with more health issues.

no right to know what he has and hasn't got

I would tell your dad you are moving out to be with gf from x date and let your siblings who have power of attourney sort out with your dad what he would like to happen. Your father can revoke power of attourney at any time if he is of sound mind.

The solution does seem clear from our objective perspectives, however, OP is emotionally invested as it is his father and I totally get that. However, you should not be sacrificing your life, hopes and dreams... it is a very difficult situation and legal matters aside, perhaps you need a meeting with all of your siblings to explain your wishes and for them to come together the share the responsibility more equally. You have done what you have thought best and it’ seems apparent that one of your brothers (the one sending the legal letter) doesn’t respect what you have done, perhaps it’s time for him to stand up and do his share xxx

The last thing I want is more upset for dad because his kids are at loggerheads. We all had a sort of odd upbringing as he never really recovered from mums death, and had to suddenly raise a bunch of kids on his own. I left as soon as I could and I feel like I didn’t do what was right by my siblings from that point of view so it’s not that I’m not happy to do what I do.

Our oldest brother now wants to write back to the lawyer to say he thinks it’s all outrageous and to say that he doesn’t want any rent for his share of the house.

You do need to report it to the Office of the Public Guardian and they will investigate the use of your Dad's funds (they don't as far as I know say who made the report).

If they are claiming £7k as that is £500 pcm for x number of months, then that would be divided between the legal owners. You need to check how you own the property - if you are equal 1/7th each then that is £1k per sibling.

I could understand then chasing it if your Dad still owned the house (an Attorney has to work in the best interests of the donor, so collecting the rent would be part of that), but not off their own backs.

I would tell the other siblings and argue that you paid towards your cost of living when you were living as a tenant. You are however paying the bills yourself (which presumably was included in the rent) so that is deductible. You would then argue that becoming a carer has altered the nature of your tenancy.

Tell your other brothers and sisters and see what they say. Also tell your father that your brother and sister have got a solicitor involved and you have to move out. As hard as it is, that is probably best for you and they can sort out the mess they have caused - it is always the siblings who are least involved who get grabby.

If my brother and sister want their £1000 each I will happily pay it to them, but they will presumably have to then join a landlords scheme and give me a rent book, and does this mean my dad also needs to start paying rent, or should it be £500/month between 2? The more I think about it the more annoyed I start to feel.

I can't mention me moving out to my dad because he won't cope well. He spends hours at a time telling me I had promised I wasn't going to date or get married or move out or see my son. It's not so easy, and probably not fair, to try and speak to him about any of this. He is still really upset that he can't find his bank card so we have spent all morning with him pulling things out of drawers despite me telling him my sister has it.

In all honesty of aberrations have been discovered in the uncles finances and now the sibling is chasing you for money I would be highly suspicious that something criminal is going on due to someone trying to live outside their means.

Go get proper legal advice urgently. If I’m reading your original post correctly it seems money has gone missing from your uncles estate? If that is correct go to the police also.

one of my brothers was the executor for uncles estate, which is how the missing money was discovered. He asked my brother and sister about it and they admitted some of the transactions related to them for example a new car was purchased despite my uncle being housebound. I'm pretty sure its the car my sister in law drives. My older brother asked younger brother and sister to relinquish their POA for dad on the back of those discrepancies but they have refused.

Another brother is a police officer who wants it all reported and investigated, but obviously with them both being teachers there is a high risk to their careers if they got criminal records, and also it seems really bad to report siblings to the police.

Our father was his brothers beneficiary, so from that point of view the money they have taken has meant my dad doesn't have an inheritance from his brother now.

If it could be handled within the family that would be much better, but they refuse to come off the attorney and it's just making things worse. Maybe I will see if my older brother will come to an appointment with a lawyer with me.

It’s all very well and good you being a good brother and not wanting to effect them but it’s not being returned to you with them trying to bill you 7k is it....

I do understand but do seek legal advice as you could get thoroughly screwed over here

Looks like the father has already been screwed over, OP, and you're next on the list unless you do something about it! I'm horrified at your brother and sisters greed! We normally say put on your big girl pants, but in your case put on your big boy boxers and sort it out!

Good advice to club together with the rest of your siblings and seek advice in a group. This sounds like a very tangled mess (with quite a strong likelihood that the two siblings with power of attourney are simply helping themselves to money that isn't theirs: whether they view it as 'we'll be getting it when he dies, this is just an advance and it will come out of our final share' or whether they are simply taking it with the intention of decieving the rest of you... I have no idea, obviously.) So you need proper, professional help.

Seeing a lawyer tomorrow afternoon. Thanks for helping me straighten things out a bit

lawyer was really helpful, they did a half hour consultation for free and said they can only advise me generally without knowing all the background.

They said it would have been better to make a challenge to the power of attorney before it was granted and I do remember getting a form to say it was being registered but I didn't think much of it at the time.

They said the rent thing sounds like tit for tatt because of the problems in my uncles estate and advised me to write to the solicitor to ask for clarification on lots of stuff.

Feel less panciked today

That's good, don't let up now. It's hard to ever leave your dad I can see but you have two other significant people in your life who deserve your time too (and I'm not talking about your siblings!)

Clarify what the 500 covers if it's rent or utilities because your paying the utilities