Not a rape culture, you say?

[christmasrage]

Two men who had sex with 14-year-old girls avoid jail ‘because sex was consensual’ - The Independentapple.news/AGivyPy3QQGW-pAFDF8SlHQ

If the link doesn't work:

15 yr old girls on a sleepover, mucking about in bikinis, having a drink. 25 yr old men turn up with drugs and more booze. Turns into an 'orgy'.

Men get suspended sentence because skimpy clothing.

So girls who drink and wear skimpy clothes in private are fair game.

Sorry, 14yr old girls.

Here we are, try again. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/two-men-sex-with-14-year-old-devon-avoid-jail-lee-pollard-mark-allen-a8126836.html

So he missed the bit where they were given drink and drugs by these men?

They are fucking scum. And the judge needs to be thinking much more carefully about the message he is sending out.

Isn't it sort of missing the point of there being an age of consent at all?

But I thought that you couldn't give consent under 16 anyway? So surely it is automatically rape?

Might as well do away with the whole concept of an age of consent in that case

That judge needs to be removed from his post before he causes any more damage.

You cant give consent 13 and under.

Most 14 year olds would be well aware what they were doing.

The number of adult men getting away with raping children in this country is disgusting.

starzig
Most 14 year olds would be well aware what they were doing.

So you'd be happy for your 14 year old daughter to be given drugs and drink by an adult so he could have sex with her? Do you really not get the problem with coercion?
At a sleepover, how many girls would have the courage to say they want to go home if their friend lets adults into the house?

Salacious reporting - lets see the transcript of the case. The judge will have the full facts, not the half page summary by a tabloid, which is designed as click bait to get everyone all hysterical.

Most 14 year olds would be well aware what they were doing.

Possibly so, but the point is that they are immature and not capable of making an informed decision.

25 year old men are well aware that it's not acceptable to have sex with 14 year old girls...

Although used for medical consent - I'd argue whether a 14 year old could give consent or not, for sex, when they could for eg, a heart transplant. You either have capacity for consent or you don't. i'm sure someone is going to trot along and say a 14yo doesn't understand consequences, I'm afraid in English law, consequences are understood aged 10 (8 in Scotland)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillick_competence

Where was the sister who was responsible for these girls?
Most 14 year olds know what sex is and will know it when it starts happening. That doesn't mean they will know how to stop it. The control of how much was taken out of their control by drugs, drink and two men 10 years older than them.

I think a 14 year old can consent. However a 25 year old who gives drugs to a girl of that age before having sex with her should be locked up, a 15/16 year old boyfriend I would view differently. It's also relevant that one mother said that her daughter was in no fit state to consent to anything - if that's the case it is surely rape anyway.

But regardless of consent, the judge suspending the sentence is an outrage.

The judge's comment about the girls being partly responsible as they were almost naked is shocking!

However they spin it, splinters, 25yr old men shouldn't be having sex 14yr olds, despite the bikinis and the alcohol.

If we live in a culture where people turn up at each other's houses, drink, take drugs, and have sex with whoever they can, without knowing enough about each other to recognise a 14yr old, then we are pretty much accepting a rape culture.

In that scenario, no matter what had happened, anyone vulnerable has no way of showing there was no consent so the guys had a free pass. The only reason they got even a suspended sentence was the age of the girls. Had the girls been 16, and had no intention of consenting, they still couldn't have proved it in court.

Yes, I say not a rape culture.

Unless you have every fact in the case you shouldn't be trying to use it to further your agenda.

Under English law, 14 year olds are not allowed to give consent to sex - at least not with men of 25.
and they gave them drugs

What would you - and the judge - require before thinking jail is an appropriate sentence ?
If the men had threatened the CHILDREN with knives ?
Or is that not enough - maybe they would have to stab the girls, so they have large physical scars as evidence ?

the judge said the girls “must accept a degree of responsibility” because they were “almost naked” when the men arrived and the sex was “consensual”

So 14 year olds in bikinis lose some legal protection against rape ?

Judge is totally irresponsible
I hope the prosecution can appeal for the sentence to be increased

Of course. I remember reading about a 12 year old who was raped and the rapist got off very lightly because she was wearing a short skirt.
Funny how men can't possibly be expected to control themselves when they see female flesh, yet when women get upset about this, they are the ones who are hysterical. I wonder what the reaction would be if it were two 25 year old women plying 14 year old boys in swimming trunks with drink and drugs and having sex with them? Would that all be fine and dandy then?

Unless you have every fact in the case you shouldn't be trying to use it to further your agenda.

The agenda of trying to stop the rape of girls? Surely that should be everyone's agenda, unless you are pro the rape of girls?

Absolutely disgusting. The men were 25! AND giving them drink and drugs?!!

Makes my blood boil.

SpartonDregs

The OP is not talking about rape, they're talking about the existence of a "rape culture" which is different. HTH.

I don't think I have an agenda as such, holdyourpiece! Just a deep anxiety about a world where men access women's bodies without much interest in the woman- or in this case, child.