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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

That this attitude to rape exists ***trigger warning***

33 replies

summercoldssuck · 16/09/2016 17:55

Have name changed to protect myself as some details may be identifying. But been around a while - penguin bollards, cancelled chequers etc

Sat at work today and overheard 2 colleagues discussing rape and a certain footballer awaiting a retrial.

Colleague 1 states that as far as they are concerned it should only be classed as rape if the person is dragged into a bush screaming. Colleague 2 agrees and states that as so much is now classed as rape they don't really understand what rape really is any more.

As a rape survivor who was not dragged into a bush but in a burgeoning relationship and was asleep in my own bed when I woke to find new boyfriend having sex with me without any consent and already fully aware that I was not ready to take that step in our relationship I find Thai attitude appalling.

AIBU to be really sad that people think this way?

OP posts:
SaggyNaggy · 16/09/2016 17:58

I'm ssu ing these two colleagues are men, I'm also assuming that they're fucking arseholes.

MothersGrim · 16/09/2016 18:00

It is really very sad and yanbu. I'm sorry for what has happened to you and I completely agree there is an awful rape culture that needs to change. Cases like this in the news always have abhorrent comments but slowly slowly change attitudes. It's changed mine and I think the new generation growing up today will be improved again.

Original poster
summercoldssuck · 16/09/2016 18:00

Saggy unfortunately not 1 male 1 female which I think made it all the more galling.

It isn't the first time I have heard discussions regarding rape in this way, especially surrounding date rape/too drunk to give permission etc

OP posts:
Buzzardbird · 16/09/2016 18:02

I would ask them if they would be so casual about it if it were their little girl/sister or mother being attacked.

AnyFucker · 16/09/2016 18:03

I would not assume these people are male

Lots of men would be appalled at those attitudes

And lots of women buy into the it only happens to "other" women bollocks that their brains fall out of their arses

justilou · 16/09/2016 18:04

I'm so sorry for what happened to you, and for what you had to overhear.... Were they involving you in this discussion? Do you think it's worth reporting them to HR? I'm pretty sure they need some kind of education about such things.... (Btw - I don't think that I know any woman who has not been subject to some kind of sexual assault or another - I'm so tired of men big-noting themselves like this at our expense!!!)

Bearfrills · 16/09/2016 18:06

YANBU at all, some people have truly disgusting attitudes towards rape mainly through ignorance and a skewed sense of morality.

Ages ago (before we went NC with them all) MIL was telling me about a member of SILs husband's family. This family member was up in court for raping his wife. None of them could quite work out how a man can rape his wife because they're married, apparently a ring equates to consent. Without going into potentially triggering details about it here, I said I could see exactly how the situation was rape. But no, according to them she was pursuing a prosecution so that she could get an easy divorce and all of the money Hmm

Thankfully for every pigshit ignorant person, there appears to be at least one other shouting them down and arguing the point about consent.

SecretAriel · 16/09/2016 18:13

Lost my post. No you are not BU. As someone who has never disclosed an incident after hearing for years the victim blaming propaganda repeated (even by my own mother) I only now have accepted I did not "deserve" it. Nowadays it is clearer than everwhat is rape and what is consent with many high profile cases, there is no excuse for saying otherwise. But this attitude persists and unfortunately sometimes as AnyFucker says other women are the worst with their moral superiority. Sorry to rant!

SecretAriel · 16/09/2016 18:14

Sorry
Perceived moral superiority!

Original poster
summercoldssuck · 16/09/2016 18:14

No not involved thankfully. Previously they have tried to and I have told them my opinion. If consent is not given or is withdrawn and the act carries on then that is rape. I don't care what drugs or alcohol are involved (none in my case as tee total) and I don't care if the perpetrator is male or female.

OP posts:
Crunchymum · 16/09/2016 18:17

I'd have interrupted and told them to Google the stats on stranger rape. It's the rarest form. Very few rapes are perpetrated by someone unknown to the victim. I've known that since I was about 12.

Ignorant fuckers. People like this need to be pulled up and shamed!!

Sorry to hear what you went through OP Flowers

SatansLittleHelper2 · 16/09/2016 18:23

It's an attitude i've heard before too.......bizarrely from women mainly. I don't think that's the norm at all tho and wouldnt consider the attitudes of a couple of idiots to be universal.

Original poster
summercoldssuck · 16/09/2016 18:27

Thank you. I never reported my rapist because I believed the "you are adults so sex is expected" brigade. I wish i had.

Glad to see I am not unreasonable to be disappointed!

And yes the stats on familiar rape are scary reading

OP posts:
SparklyUnicornPoo · 16/09/2016 18:30
Flowers

It is sad but unfortunately I've heard very similar conversations, and not always from men.

When I was raped it wasn't a dragged into a hedge screaming thing either but there is no way in hell that creature could have thought it was consentual either, you'd have thought saying no would have given him the hint.

wasonthelist · 16/09/2016 18:32

Yanbu it isn't difficult to know what is and is not rape.

AristotlesTrousers · 16/09/2016 19:19

YANBU OP. I'm sorry for what happened to you too. Flowers

Neither of my rapes were the dragging into a hedge kicking and screaming kind either - in fact one of mine was a school friend who I had a crush on, and the fucked-up-ness of the strange setting he arranged messed with my mind far more than the more clear-cut nightclub rape by another guy a few months later (though not clear cut enough for the police who sent me home that night with a message that I shouldn't get drunk and cry rape in future).

Over twenty years later and ironically, today I made an appointment to speak to somebody at my local SARC.

Champagneformyrealfriends · 16/09/2016 19:31

Good god yanbu. And to you and all other rape survivors Flowers

ImperialBlether · 16/09/2016 19:36

As well as the sick rapists out there, there are also some really sick women. Think of the women who write to mass murderers and rapists asking to marry them. People like Peter Sutcliffe will have far more fan mail than George Clooney. Those women have to justify their own behaviour and the man's behaviour - they must get terrible headaches doing it.

AliceInHinterland · 16/09/2016 19:50

It's the usual magical thinking isn't it - that it could never happen to them or the people they care about. Education is the only way forward, I know my own views have become clearer and more progressive over time, so I do believe views can change slowly but surely. We need to keep challenging people and discussing the nature of consent with our children.

dArtagnansCrumpet · 16/09/2016 19:58

I had a friend once who said that rape wasn't that big of a deal, it's only rape, it's only sex some might even enjoy it. If it happened to her she wouldn't be that bothered about it.

She was an absolute knob in most ways tbf.

ITCouldBeWorse · 16/09/2016 20:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AliceInHinterland · 16/09/2016 20:17

In her book Animal, Sara Pascoe says something interesting though about men actually being pretty clear about consent while women make excuses for men as if it's too confusing for them. I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but let's aim for enthusiastic consent as a bare minimum. Who the fuck is having sex with a woman who has 'frozen', asleep or passed out thinking 'oh yes, she's really up for this'. At the very least these men must know they are skirting moral boundaries whether or not they call it rape (which it is).
I like her question of whether a person is in a position to sign a legal document (including no coercion or impairment by drink and drugs) - if not, then no dice.

arrrrghhwinehelpswithteens · 16/09/2016 20:18

Flowers OP.

I lost my virginity by rape by a boyfriend in the '80s. Attitudes then were (a) is he your boyfriend (b) did you go to the location with him and (c) were you wearing a skirt - yes to all meant tough luck, from parents and police. I've long since come to terms with it but I agree that the attitudes don't seem to have changed as much as I would have hoped.

The only way they will is with the mantra "rape is rape unless a clear yes was given" is repeated - whatever the combination of rapist / victim. And that anyone who is drunk / drugged is incapable of giving informed consent. If it means waiting till the object of your lust is sober/ fully awake, so what? It'll be better for both anyway.

As parent of a teenager, I'm soooo conscious about the consent issue and hate the fact that I've had to explain to DD about how to break away if need me.

Andrewofgg · 16/09/2016 20:18

SaggyNaggy Being a fucking arsehole is equal opps as appears from the OP's answer to your assumptions. AnyFucker is right.

StrongBelwas · 16/09/2016 20:29

I work with a lot of fans of the footballer's former club. The majority of them seemed perfectly happy to let him off as long as he could play for them. I got myself into so many arguments about it. I couldn't believe the attitude of a lot of men and women regarding consent. As a survivor myself it was unbelievably depressing.