That this attitude to rape exists ***trigger warning***

[summercoldssuck]

Have name changed to protect myself as some details may be identifying. But been around a while - penguin bollards, cancelled chequers etc

Sat at work today and overheard 2 colleagues discussing rape and a certain footballer awaiting a retrial.

Colleague 1 states that as far as they are concerned it should only be classed as rape if the person is dragged into a bush screaming. Colleague 2 agrees and states that as so much is now classed as rape they don't really understand what rape really is any more.


As a rape survivor who was not dragged into a bush but in a burgeoning relationship and was asleep in my own bed when I woke to find new boyfriend having sex with me without any consent and already fully aware that I was not ready to take that step in our relationship I find Thai attitude appalling.

AIBU to be really sad that people think this way?

[justilou]

I was violently raped when I was 17 by an older guy at a party. When I reported him, it turned out that he was a policeman. (Wouldn't you know it?) I was told that everyone knew he was dodgy, but my life would be made hell if I reported it. I was tailgates by police cars for months afterwards. (Was the 80's and the police were very corrupt where I grew up.) I decided that it was healthier to compartmentalise this as an act of violence, not sex - and while I didn't discuss it at the time, I shall do so with all of my kids.

[LittleMoonbuggy]

It's so depressing. I remember a few months ago reading a short article in a newspaper about a poor female soldier in the UK who had been raped by a fellow soldier at the base, can't remember all the details but think she may even have later died in circumstances linked to it. I was horrified at the wording the reporter chose to use to desribe the rape- I'm positive they used the word 'romp' and it seemed so inappropriate.

When I hear the word 'romp' it is definitely consensual sex that comes to mind, not rape. But as long as mainstream newspapers report like this what hope is there of attitudes changing?

[PrettyBlueDressForTheXmasBall]

it isn't difficult to know what is and is not rape.

Actually it can be really difficult. I speak as a victim. I wasn't sure it counted as rape, even though I didn't want it and had made that clear, because, after 4 hours of H (now ex) constantly pestering, grabing at me and not allowing me to go to sleep (whilst I was desperate for sleep and it was early hours of morning) I finally gave in and said fine and allowed it to happen. I know now it is rape but at the time I really couldn't decide if he'd done wrong or if it was my fault because, after hours of him refusing to take no for an answer, I allowed it, just so he'd stop grabbing at me and let me sleep.

[anyhue]

OP, I don't think YABU to be sad about it, it is truly depressing.

There seems to be a woeful lack of education with respect to rape.

It is horrifying that some men, and even more so some women, can have that attitude. You would think that women would have a much more intuitive understanding?

[summercoldssuck]

That is half the issue, hero worship. The other half is stupidity I think. It was my female colleague who was trying to argue that alcohol etc muddies the water because how could a man truly know if she meant no or just hadn't said yes. I was on a conference call listening to some very dull waffle but I really wanted to shake her and point out that if she was too drunk to know what was happening then she was too drunk to consent to sex.

A lawyer would not allow a drunk/drugged client sign legal documents as they would not be considered to be of sound mind and judgement so how the hell is it considered on for sex?!

Properly boils my piss. But I am glad to know others agree with me!

And to all my fellow survivors.

[StrongBelwas]

summer most of them didn't even bother reading anything about the case! As long as he could score goals it was all fine

[summercoldssuck]

Strong he plays for a club about 10 miles from me and it is frightening the attitudes! She was drunk so no one really knows, she had led him on, well he scores goals so he can't be too bad. It makes me sick. I don't like football but there i refuse to use any of the facilities at the ground over it

[summercoldssuck]

Winehelps attitudes haven't changed at all from your experience as far as I can tell. When I discussed my experience with a few close friends I mostly got exactly the same answer. He is your boyfriend, you are in your late 20's, you let him stay over., what did you expect. We had broken up, he drove 200 miles after a 12 hour night shift to see me and "make amends", I let him sleep on the sofa against my better judgement because after a long and gruelling day at work I wasn't in the mood for a row. He totally an used my trust and yet I was the one in the wrong according to my FEMALE friends. Even I had to have it pointed out to me that it was rape. I had convinced myself that people would see it as my fault and so i must have led him on.


The fact that people in their 30's and 40's still seem to think that rape is used "too often" and that dating someone or dancing and flirting in a club means it shouldn't be classed as rape as lines were "blurred".

[StrongBelwas]

I work with a lot of fans of the footballer's former club. The majority of them seemed perfectly happy to let him off as long as he could play for them. I got myself into so many arguments about it. I couldn't believe the attitude of a lot of men and women regarding consent. As a survivor myself it was unbelievably depressing.

[Andrewofgg]

SaggyNaggy Being a fucking arsehole is equal opps as appears from the OP's answer to your assumptions. AnyFucker is right.

[arrrrghhwinehelpswithteens]

OP.

I lost my virginity by rape by a boyfriend in the '80s. Attitudes then were (a) is he your boyfriend (b) did you go to the location with him and (c) were you wearing a skirt - yes to all meant tough luck, from parents and police. I've long since come to terms with it but I agree that the attitudes don't seem to have changed as much as I would have hoped.

The only way they will is with the mantra "rape is rape unless a clear yes was given" is repeated - whatever the combination of rapist / victim. And that anyone who is drunk / drugged is incapable of giving informed consent. If it means waiting till the object of your lust is sober/ fully awake, so what? It'll be better for both anyway.

As parent of a teenager, I'm soooo conscious about the consent issue and hate the fact that I've had to explain to DD about how to break away if need me.

[AliceInHinterland]

In her book Animal, Sara Pascoe says something interesting though about men actually being pretty clear about consent while women make excuses for men as if it's too confusing for them. I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but let's aim for enthusiastic consent as a bare minimum. Who the fuck is having sex with a woman who has 'frozen', asleep or passed out thinking 'oh yes, she's really up for this'. At the very least these men must know they are skirting moral boundaries whether or not they call it rape (which it is).
I like her question of whether a person is in a position to sign a legal document (including no coercion or impairment by drink and drugs) - if not, then no dice.

[dArtagnansCrumpet]

I had a friend once who said that rape wasn't that big of a deal, it's only rape, it's only sex some might even enjoy it. If it happened to her she wouldn't be that bothered about it.

She was an absolute knob in most ways tbf.

[AliceInHinterland]

It's the usual magical thinking isn't it - that it could never happen to them or the people they care about. Education is the only way forward, I know my own views have become clearer and more progressive over time, so I do believe views can change slowly but surely. We need to keep challenging people and discussing the nature of consent with our children.

[ImperialBlether]

As well as the sick rapists out there, there are also some really sick women. Think of the women who write to mass murderers and rapists asking to marry them. People like Peter Sutcliffe will have far more fan mail than George Clooney. Those women have to justify their own behaviour and the man's behaviour - they must get terrible headaches doing it.

[Champagneformyrealfriends]

Good god yanbu. And to you and all other rape survivors

[AristotlesTrousers]

YANBU OP. I'm sorry for what happened to you too.

Neither of my rapes were the dragging into a hedge kicking and screaming kind either - in fact one of mine was a school friend who I had a crush on, and the fucked-up-ness of the strange setting he arranged messed with my mind far more than the more clear-cut nightclub rape by another guy a few months later (though not clear cut enough for the police who sent me home that night with a message that I shouldn't get drunk and cry rape in future).

Over twenty years later and ironically, today I made an appointment to speak to somebody at my local SARC.

[wasonthelist]

Yanbu it isn't difficult to know what is and is not rape.

[SparklyUnicornPoo]

It is sad but unfortunately I've heard very similar conversations, and not always from men.

When I was raped it wasn't a dragged into a hedge screaming thing either but there is no way in hell that creature could have thought it was consentual either, you'd have thought saying no would have given him the hint.

[summercoldssuck]

Thank you. I never reported my rapist because I believed the "you are adults so sex is expected" brigade. I wish i had.

Glad to see I am not unreasonable to be disappointed!

And yes the stats on familiar rape are scary reading

[SatansLittleHelper2]

It's an attitude i've heard before too.......bizarrely from women mainly. I don't think that's the norm at all tho and wouldnt consider the attitudes of a couple of idiots to be universal.

[Crunchymum]

I'd have interrupted and told them to Google the stats on stranger rape. It's the rarest form. Very few rapes are perpetrated by someone unknown to the victim. I've known that since I was about 12.

Ignorant fuckers. People like this need to be pulled up and shamed!!

Sorry to hear what you went through OP

[summercoldssuck]

No not involved thankfully. Previously they have tried to and I have told them my opinion. If consent is not given or is withdrawn and the act carries on then that is rape. I don't care what drugs or alcohol are involved (none in my case as tee total) and I don't care if the perpetrator is male or female.

[SecretAriel]

Sorry
Perceived moral superiority!