Why are there so few posts on the feminism board? (Part 2)

[Jackieharris]

Since the last one filled up I though I'd start a new one as the conversation seemed to be mid flow.

Link to old thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2222959-To-be-a-bit-dismayed-if-4-million-women-visit-this-site-why-are-there-so-few-posts-on-the-feminism-threads?pg=1&order=

I ought to be doing other things, but can I just say (since this is a new thread) that I don't think it's true that there are few posts.

FWR isn't as busy or fast-moving as some sections, but I think it is quite busy, and there are quite a lot of posters who move in and out.

I don't usually post because I don't feel clever enough and I don't feel I could contribute anything extra to the debate. I don't mind about being disagreed with though. If some people (or many people) don't agree with me I'm happy to either defend my position, or reconsider it if I think there's a reason to.
Tbh I do find the highly academic nature of some of the posts intimidating. I don't think those posters should "dumb down" though, and if I don't understand something i Google it, but I'm just not clever enough sometimes tbh!

I have posted once or twice but in the main don't even look at that particular board.

Some of the posters who frequent it are particularly aggressive in their posting style and become personal in their responses towards anybody who disagrees with them very quickly indeed.

I have however note that a couple of the posters are just the same when posting on other boards.

Feminism isn't a concept exclusive to the feminism boards anyway and will come up on all the other boards so I don't think the majority of Mumsnetters are somehow failing the feminist cause by not posting on the specific board.

because the posters are aggressive and offputting and it all seems to be the 're hashing of the same topic and violence against women card played constantly. it's all rather dull, and I say this as a feminist.

What Ginger said.

I find that feminism is found all over mumsnet. Feminism is sisterhood, so you find it in every topic. Women offering support to other women, as oppressed people.

Because that what we are folks. Like it or not, women are oppressed. By men. Not by aliens. Not by god. Not by other women. And the figures bear this out.

I also find the feminist topics attract a lot of trolls, or people trying to convince women that feminism is necessary, that porn is a choice and that we're all equal now.

Also, what is very hard for some women, even feminists, to realize is that men are doing the oppressing on purpose. That it's not an accident. It's strategic and deliberate. Plenty of women who don't call themselves feminists have worked this one out. Plenty of young girls have worked this one out. But lots of adult women find this concept hard to grasp. They think women's suffering just "happens" . Women's incalculable suffering is not an accident. There are women outside of the feminist topic who guess this.

I'm glad the feminist topic is there, but because of all the trolls that congregate there, interrupting feminists, you are just as likely to find feminism elsewhere on MN.

Because if you lightly question some of the barking mad views that get posted there you are designated a troll and are inundated with personal attacks from the usual suspects.

And no I'm not saying all the views are barking mad, but sometimes it gets quite extreme.

convince women that feminism isn't necessary

To me, in a way the whole of mumsnet is feminist in a way as it's majority user group is women who are on the whole supportive of each other, especially in the relationship section where there is lots of wonderful advice.

I think the feminism boards are used more for discussing feminist theory. I do think it can be a bit, daunting perhaps, if you're not from an academic background or have little to no knowledge of feminist theory. Some people react to that by feeling angry, some lurk and learn and some jump right in head first. Some don't feel it is relevant to their life and prefer more practical or light hearted sections.

Also there is a slight cliquey feel to it. Not intentionally I'm sure. It's not as bad as some threads with weird names that you go into and feel like everyone is in on the joke but you, but there is the sense that everyone knows each other.

I also don't feel "clever" enough,find some posters aggresive and I find it offputting that many women can seemingly whittle everything down to men being an enemy. Also if something like the above is posted, I can't stand the glut of "Provide an example or you argument doesn't stand" posts. There can be no generalised opinions and I can't be arsed.

The feminism on the rest of the site at least has some humour!
I would like to know why children can't be free to fit stereotypes if they are happy to. Why must a girl wear wellies with her pink dress? Why can't she dress up with the whole works and save her wellies for when she is in jeans or shorts? I hate the fact that a dress and wellies is somehow better. ( never got chance to say it in the last thread).
Feminism means choice to me.

I haven't read the first part of this thread, but I have looked through some of the posts on the feminism board before and felt quite alienated/disappointed.

A lot (not all!) of the posts I've seen seem to have a very second-wave, radical feminism slant to them. Transphobia seems pretty common and there seems to be little acknowledgement of intersectionality.

That is not my feminism at all and I don't feel that I have the energy to sit and argue with a bunch of strangers on the internet. I'd rather focus on my real life and issues that are important to me.

I'm sure there must be posters with similar views to me (maybe they're all not posting for the same reasons I don't ) but from what I've seen they seem to be few and far between.

Hi. I haven't read the first thread. But the reason I have FWR topic hidden is because I find it terrifying.

So much scope for saying the wrong thing, and I would feel like I was walking on eggshells the whole time, continually being told why I was so very wrong.

So best to keep quiet.

I saw that the OP of that last thread had posted on FWR to discuss her thread here and didn't bother. It told me everything I need to know about that board. I don't want to post on it or read it.

I hate seeing women being pulled apart for their views and that has no place on a feminism board.

Well done, OP-of-the-last-thread, what a result!

I find it serious and dull. I don't like the aggressive posts or the endless rehashing of men as the enemy. To me it feels like politics- all posturing and arguing and never agreeing with anything the other side says on principle.

I don't agree FWR is cliquey. But it does seem that you all know each other. Not surprising if you are all regular posters there. But it does make it harder for others to comment regularly there.

The OP:

Ok so I know there are lots of lurkers but if there are really millions of women who go on MN, why are so many threads on the feminism section consisting of so few women? It doesn't make sense to me as so many issues that women post about on many different topics are actually feminist issues when it comes down to it…

Personally I don't think it's good for "feminism" to be rarefied - as you say, so many issues that women post about are actually feminist issues, so better to have them discussed by a wider audience, with differing views, across the forum.

I would like to know why children can't be free to fit stereotypes if they are happy to. Why must a girl wear wellies with her pink dress?

Mehitabel6 my own feelings on this are that stereotypes need to be broken down completely. So in the hypothetical land with no stereotypes and no gender expectations, a girl may love wearing pink frills, but she is under no pressure to behave in that way or any other way. There are no messages either direct or more subconscious telling her that pink frills are the right thing for girls to enjoy. She is truly making that decision herself.

That's not to say it's a bad thing if a girl enjoys that today. I don't think any of the posters I've seen on the feminist boards would say it is a bad thing, but they may question whether she'd still make the sane decisions in a world free of gender expectations.

I'd be interested to hear the views of this OP.

There does seem to be a recurring theme of the fwr board being theoretical/academic/jargonistic.

Maybe we need a fwr glossary?

Although putting one there isn't much use for people who hide the board!

Are there words/ideas etc people could post on this thread that are examples of things they find go over their heads on the fwr board?

I've read quite widely around the topic but I do find some of the prominent writers quite difficult to read (and I've got a degree!)

Same not sane!

I'm wondering if MNHQ has given any impression of deleting the FWR board if it doesn't drum up new business? I really doubt it, so I'm just wondering why, if feminism is so important to the denizens of that board, that they just don't post across MN itself?

The analogy with politics is a good one I think. Most parties are a broad church, with most members holding 'centrist' views and a minority of people holding more extreme / niche views. I think this is common to most 'movements' and feminism is no exception. I think the FWR board is used heavily by people with more extreme / niche views, and this puts a lot of the more moderate people off.