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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Why are there so few posts on the feminism board? (Part 2)

294 replies

Jackieharris · 19/04/2015 10:18

Since the last one filled up I though I'd start a new one as the conversation seemed to be mid flow.

OP posts:
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 19/04/2015 15:10

OutsSelf... I can see that we'll be disagreeing to agree on much. I don't find that suspect in any way, it's the way it is and I wouldn't presume to challenge your thinking.

I think that unless you made things equal - ie. men and women being equally able to wear makeup/not wear makeup - go bare-legged in the office, you cannot truly see where the cards fall.

It's only women that consider other women not wanting to wear makeup as unusual or unreasonable. I would say that those same type of judgemental women also feel it's within their province to dictate grooming standards for men. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't make my viewpoint suspicious or that I don't 'see'. I just don't happen to agree with your view.

Feminism should mean that whilst we're busily fighting for our rights as women, we're seeking to address this at the root, ie. change the perceptions of men by actually fighting to address the inequality against them as much as against us. We don't really do that under the banner of 'feminism' though, do we? To me though that's important and it's why I won't stand under it.

If it's acknowledged that some women police other women's behaviour, where does that fit in with feminism?

I think there are some feminists who feel aggrieved that they were born in the wrong time, can't fight for a vote for women now that we have one and have lost their way and purpose a bit. I think that because 'women fighting against women' has never been an agenda that sits as well with me as it seems to with some. It never will.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 19/04/2015 15:13

laurief... but you can think of some that require men to COVER UP facial hair, can't you?

Honestly... Grin

laurierf · 19/04/2015 15:14

'women fighting against women' has never been an agenda

of course it has - problem is that when feminists point out to other women they are being sexist, the response is that they're are being belittled for having a different opinion!

AICM · 19/04/2015 15:15

For my part I never felt bullied, shouted down or shrieked at for most of my time on FWR

So I can’t point to individual threads that prove this attitude conclusively. However, I did feel ground down by a large number of low level sniping comments that on their own don’t amount to much but as whole made me think “What’s the point? These people only want to hear people like them.

The final straw came with this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a2165662-ISIS-Fighters-Living-the-MRA-Dream

It was posted the day after an innocent man had been beheaded by ISIS. I think the OP was in very poor taste to post this so soon after such an awful murder. At the time CKDexterHaven was a leading light on the board. She clearly orders other poster not to reply to me. Then set this thread up

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2165755-Behold-a-Man-Has-Arrived-to-Share-His-Manly-View

to accuse me of being a man as obviously only a man could disagree with her. I did take this to be bullying.

On a thread this morning one poster claim that FWR was 'stridently intellectual' than AIBU. I pointed out that this kind of attitude was the cause of the whole problem and was told I'm not academic enough or intellectual enough for them in a rather patronising way.

The same thread contains the quote "Oh crikey, AIBU you can't reason with those people" which I though was ironic.

laurierf · 19/04/2015 15:15

No! Genuinely. Which roles require men to cover up facial hair?

TedAndLola · 19/04/2015 15:18

Some types of food manufacturing.

Hakluyt · 19/04/2015 15:20

"On a thread this morning one poster claim that FWR was 'stridently intellectual' than AIBU. I pointed out that this kind of attitude was the cause of the whole problem and was told I'm not academic enough or intellectual enough for them in a rather patronising way." *Hey- that's not what happened at
all!!!!!

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 19/04/2015 15:31

laurief... that's twice you've done that now. It hasn't been an agenda that sits well with me.

Do you need to take things out of context to make your point?

I enjoy a debate very much but this kind of thing is tiresome. Challenge all you like, I'm happy to discuss, agree to disagree - and agree to agree even more so. Not this, it's disingenuous.

Agree with ACIM. If FWR really wants to encourage 'new blood', that sort of posting needs to be stepped on, hard! Otherwise, those posters would do better to stay where they are and chunter away to themselves.

OutsSelf · 19/04/2015 15:31

That description of that thread ACIM is just so misleading and unfair. And I rather think you know that the AIBU comment was a joke. The poster was being purposefully ironic.

JanineStHubbins · 19/04/2015 15:32

Yeah, you've totally misrepresented lied about that thread, AICM.

Haklyut didn't tell you anything of the sort. FFS.

AICM · 19/04/2015 15:32

Here's the full transcript:

Poster A:Is FWR more robust, on average, than AIBU or Politics, do you think?

Poster B: I'm not sure, I think there is a different atmosphere. It's more stridently intellectual (sometimes) maybe?

Me: FWR is, "more stridently intellectual" than AIBU.
And you lot STILL can't work out why your not liked!

Hakluyt Men are never strident. Or feisty.
Maybe overtly intellectual would be better? Or sometimes overtly academic?
AIBU is never, as far as I know, either!

SenecaFalls · 19/04/2015 15:34

violence against women card played constantly Several posters then agreed with this post.

Violence against women is not a "card;" it's a fact. And yes, it's pretty constant, as it happens. But yes indeed, if you don't want to hear about it, you'd best stay out of discussions of feminism because it is a core concern.

Hakluyt · 19/04/2015 15:35

Oh ffs- apart from anything else that's not a full transcript. On my phone so can't c&p the whole thing...........

JanineStHubbins · 19/04/2015 15:35

AICM you missed out Poster C who asked are men described as strident, generally? - to which Hak responded Men are never strident[...]

If you're going to give the full transcript, give the full transcript (and not your misleading edited version).

I still don't see where you were told you were not academic enough or intellectual enough. Can you point that out, please?

iwtfbf · 19/04/2015 15:36

You 'sort of' did say it Hakluyt.
Your last line is belittling.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 19/04/2015 15:36

Perhaps it's down to interpretation then? I read ACIM's links before I posted, the transcript is accurate, she's not lying. Why say that she is?

I've resisted hiding any board but I'm not of your FWR 'ilk' and obviously never going to 'fit in'.

JanineStHubbins · 19/04/2015 15:37

Belittling? Of the AIBU board? Confused

iwtfbf · 19/04/2015 15:37

Sorry Jamie that bit is there,

Maybe overtly intellectual would be better? Or sometimes overtly academic?
AIBU is never, as far as I know, either!

What did you take that to mean?

TheCowThatLaughs · 19/04/2015 15:38

With the best will in the world, I don't think there's ever a question of AIBU being intellectual or academic. That's not insulting, it's just true

Hakluyt · 19/04/2015 15:39

Belittling to what or whom?

Hakluyt · 19/04/2015 15:41

" the transcript is accurate, she's not lying. Why say that she is?"

Accurate but not full. There were
posts between.

JanineStHubbins · 19/04/2015 15:42

Were you posting to me iwtfbf?

Hak was responding to an earlier post which posited that men are never described as 'strident'. Within the context of another poster describing FWR as 'stridently intellectual' - which is a gendered description. To move away from this, perhaps terms like 'overtly intellectual' or 'overtly academic' would be better.

And yes - AIBU, for all its charms and faults, can't be described as an intellectual or academic board, by and large.

SetPhasersTaeMalkie · 19/04/2015 15:44

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a2358221-I-thought-I-was-a-feminist-until-someone-showed-me-this-forum#53861392

Here it is. I think it is a misrepresentation of the thread AICM.

I don't see the problem with what was said.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 19/04/2015 15:44

TheCow.. that doesn't mean that posters who post on AIBU or anywhere else are NOT intellectual or academic.

What I would dearly like an answer to is this... if posters from FWR feel so strongly that AIBU is not worthy of their intellectual and academic input, why keep posting here? Are you goading? Bored? What?

'Never the twain shall meet' might be a suitable panacea for both, no?

Hakluyt · 19/04/2015 15:45

Today 14:58 Hakluyt

Men are never strident. Or feisty.

Maybe overtly intellectual would be better? Or sometimes overtly academic?

AIBU is never, as far as I know, either!

Today 14:48 mitigosi

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Today 13:07 cailindana

Are men described as strident, generally?

Today 13:05 GibberingFlapdoodle

I don't think you can accuse Buffy of being very strident. Or Cailin.

Do you mean to simply observe that the British dislike thought generally? Should that be encouraged do you think? Or challenged?

Today 13:04 BakingCookiesAndShit

AICM was that said by an FWR regular, do you think? Or someone describing their perception as an outsider? Instead of doing snitty one liners, why don't you try and engage with people?

Today 12:57 AICM

FWR is, "more stridently intellectual" than AIBU.

And you lot STILL can't work out why your not liked!