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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To worry about the Judges attitude in Levelle Verdict.

305 replies

daiseehope · 10/09/2013 15:24

I believe I need to state that this man has been found not guilty of all charges etc. I am an abuse victim who is taking a case to court. AIBU as apparently the Judge stated to the Jury prior to deciding that the sic "manner and appearance of the alleged victim and how she appears to you is vital". I don't think that's right.Hmm Hmm

OP posts:
meditrina · 10/09/2013 15:29

Can you link the full statement?

What did he say, if anything, about the manner/appearance/etc of the then accused?

Judges statements usually go on for some time, and one sentence may not be a true representation. That's why I'd be interested to know more of what he said. For the credibility of each person is vital and the statement should over both. Did it?

hatsybatsy · 10/09/2013 15:29

I didn't think the verdict was out yet?

I think in this case as it was just one persons word against another (ie no pohysical or corroborated evidence) then all the jury really have to go on is how Le Vell and his accuser appear to them? How she appears/seems to them is one thing - if the jury were specifically directed to consider her physical appearance then that would be wrong.

Youhaventseenme · 10/09/2013 15:30

NOT GUILTY

usuallyright · 10/09/2013 15:32

I'm not surprised. I thought he was innocent.

cantspel · 10/09/2013 15:32

He has been found not guilty on all counts.

MrsTerryPratchett · 10/09/2013 15:33

I'm not surprised. I thought he was innocent. 'Not guilty', not 'innocent'. There is a difference.

cantspel · 10/09/2013 15:35

If you find someone not guilty then they are innocent as brititish law doesn't have a verdict of not proven.

usuallyright · 10/09/2013 15:36

Exactly cantspel.

Footface · 10/09/2013 15:36

I thought the Judge said in his summing up that the jury should look to find him guilty. So I was surprised when he was found innocent

usuallyright · 10/09/2013 15:37

I hope he has the full support of Coronation Street . He's going to need a lot of support to get through. Mud sticks and he will always have this dark cloud hanging over him.

xkittyx · 10/09/2013 15:38

Scottish law in fact does have a Not Proven verdict.

Original poster
daiseehope · 10/09/2013 15:38

Hello OP's. Verdict on news a few minutes ago. I agree he has been proven Innocent and am not questioning the verdict as such. I am more concerned that the Jury should not be directed to take demeanour , appearance etc into account. Lots of people come across strangely under pressure.

OP posts:
Nancy66 · 10/09/2013 15:38

From what I have read, the judge told the jury that their evaluation of the alleged victim was critical due to the lack of physical evidence.

I see nothing wrong in that.

Platinumstart · 10/09/2013 15:41

In general and making no judgment on this case I can assure you as a defence lawyer that a not guilty verdict in no way equates to innocence.

cantspel · 10/09/2013 15:41

considering the jury had been out less than half a day i would think that the verdict wasn't hard for them to reach and therefore there was not a lot of evidence to convict on.

pensandpaperclips · 10/09/2013 15:41

What will happen to the alleged victim then? Will she be prosecuted for wasting so much time & money?

BeCool · 10/09/2013 15:43

so if he is innocent will his accuser now be prosecuted for falsely accusing him of rape?

BeCool · 10/09/2013 15:43

X post

Original poster
daiseehope · 10/09/2013 15:44

See what you're saying Nancy66, but as someone that's about to sit in the court and give evidence frankly it's terrifying. I worry tbh from the point of view of a "real" victim. I do not come across well under stress.

OP posts:
HavantGuard · 10/09/2013 15:44

Not guilty may equal innocent in law. It doesn't necessarily equal innocent. No comment on this specific case but rape and sexual assault cases have very low conviction rates. That doesn't mean those rapes and assaults didn't happen.

Original poster
daiseehope · 10/09/2013 15:45

My thoughts exactly opSad

OP posts:
HavantGuard · 10/09/2013 15:47

Is that a serious question Becool?

Original poster
daiseehope · 10/09/2013 15:47

And you're right, if it was a false allegation she should be charged. Surely that would make it a less likely occurrence. The police told me false allegations were actually very rare.

OP posts:
BeCool · 10/09/2013 15:47

"If you find someone not guilty then they are innocent as brititish law doesn't have a verdict of not proven."

Whatever verdicts may exist, because a court finds you not guilty in no way at all means you are innocent. It could simply mean there was not sufficient evidence to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

If you did the act, a verdict of "not guilty" doesn't mean you didn't do it!!!

xkittyx · 10/09/2013 15:47

If the police and prosecution service thought there was enough ofa case for a potential conviction then of course they won't now prosecute her.
Sex crimes have a very low conviction rate.