To worry about the Judges attitude in Levelle Verdict.

[daiseehope]

I believe I need to state that this man has been found not guilty of all charges etc. I am an abuse victim who is taking a case to court. AIBU as apparently the Judge stated to the Jury prior to deciding that the sic "manner and appearance of the alleged victim and how she appears to you is vital". I don't think that's right.

[Switchedtoeatingbutter]

Ciderbomb how do you know she was lying? If your abuser had to go to court and get off, would that mean you were lying, that your horrific experience never happened?

[MrsTerryPratchett]

In the spirit of I Believe Her, can I say that just because he has been found not guilty does not make her statements a lie or make her a vindictive little madam.

[limitedperiodonly]

bowlersarm

Do you understand how a rape conviction is decided?

[Bowlersarm]

But how can you say you believe her, when the jury doesn't? Is a rape accuser always in the right MrsTP?

[squoosh]

Bowlersarm you have great faith in our justice system, far greater than I do. Once again, I'm not referring to this case but guilty people are found not guilty all the time.

You'd be more than a little bit silly to assume that all men who are found not guilty of rape are actually innocent.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

NOT THIS CASE Beyond a reasonable doubt means that she could well be telling the truth. There might also be a tiny chance that he is, so he gets a not guilty. Different standard in different courts. That is why OJ Simpson got a not guilty but then was sued and lost in his civil case. On the balance of probabilities, he DID murder those poor people.

[HoldMeCloserTonyDanza]

What evidence is there that she lied, CiderBomb?

Does innocent until proven guilty not work both ways?

[Bowlersarm]

Not exactly limited enlighten me?

[MinesAPintOfTea]

Havant I wish it was possible to convict more men of rape when the defence is that it was consensual sex. In fact one thing that makes me wish I'd had the courage to report is so that if the "man" in question committed similar crimes there would be a record of multiple victims.

That doesn't however mean I think that there should be a lower burden of proof for sexual assault and rape than for any other crime.

[MarmaladeTwatkins]

"It makes me sick that people lie about things like this. I was sexually assaulted as a teenager, it's something that I still think about to this day and its made it hard for me to have relationships with men as a result."

So flip this on it's head.

Say if you decided to press charges and your abuser was put on trial and subsequently found not guilty, would that make you a vindictive little madam?

She may well not have lied. This kind of talk of getting what she deserves and vindictive little madams is VERY harmful to women who've been sexually assaulted/abused. And I am talking as one of them. Please think before you write such spiteful crap.

[northernlurker]

I don't think there's any 'comfortable' position here. Either you have to disbelieve a victim or you have to embrace what would have been a conviction without evidence.
The whole situation is a tragedy and probably the best thing is to let those involved rebuild their lives as best they can whilst everybody else concentrates on creating a better society. A society where children aren't hurt, where abuse can be disclosed and timely prosecutions take place. Probably a distant dream unfortunately.

[Bowlersarm]

Yes squoosh I agree that men who escape conviction can't all be innocent. By the same token there must be a huge number of men who are accused of rape when they are entirely innocent.

[Feminine]

I read the that the jury was mostly made up of women?

He has been found not guilty.

That needs to be the end of it.

I say that as someone who has been abused as a child.

[HavantGuard]

Ha! So in your world Bowlersarm everyone found not guilty of rape is the victim of false allegations?

If a juror is 90% sure the defendant is guilty, they're supposed to say not guilty. In civil law it's about the balance of probabilities. In criminal law the standard is set much higher.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer". This is what our system is built on. Which means a not guilty verdict doesn't equal innocence. Rightly if you don't want a balance of probabilities system, which I don't.

I believe her as a victim because she has a right to be believed. If I was on the jury on a case, my duty would be different.

[BeCool]

this whole situation makes me feel quite pathetic, an intellectual gnat and really sad. I'm floundering, unable to make any sense of it at all.

If he was falsely accused - its a travesty.
If this teenage girl was telling the truth and wasn't believed - it's a travesty.

so either way it's a sorry sorry mess.

[cantspel]

He has been found not guilty and so has been aquitted and discharged from court by the Judge.


Acquit
To set free, release or discharge as from an obligation, burden or accusation. To absolve one from an obligation or a liability; or to legally certify the innocence of one charged with a crime.

[Leopoldina]

I don't think a lot of you have read the reporting. This court transcript from bbc news may be enlightening:
he defence lawyer said the girl had attended a motivational speech by a woman who had been raped at an early age and went onto rebuild her life.

He said the girl had come back from the talk "excited" and told her family she was "part of a special group now", which a relative had said was "weird".

"Is that what some of this is about? You heard this lady talking about how she was raped when she was very young and how she went on and became a model?" he asked.

"You want to become an actress or a dancer, is that right?"

'Vendetta' denied
The girl denied being excited by the woman's speech and said she no longer wanted to be an actor or a dancer.

The court heard that a case against Mr Le Vell had been dropped by the Crown Prosecution Service in 2011 and the girl had subsequently contacted the police with further allegations.

Breaking down in tears, she said the delay in reporting the offences was because she had "had a lot more flashbacks [and] I was very confused".

[HavantGuard]

The CPS only touch cases where they believe they have a reasonable chance of conviction. Most rapes aren't reported. Most reported rapes never come to court. The ones that do are the strongest ones.

[HoldMeCloserTonyDanza]

I think it's impossible for an onlooker to say whether the verdict is sound because the nature of the victims identity meant that reams of evidence was discussed in court that could not be reported in the media for fear of outing her.

I also think that perhaps there should have been a total ban on reporting of the case, because despite the restrictions the media made it bone-crushingly obvious who she is.

That said, if she is telling the truth, I imagine she's glad the media were able to report some of her testimony as it's the only justice she can hope to get.

[Mumoftwoyoungkids]

Hmmmm. I don't think it is right to call her a vindictive little madam. Perjury is a serious crime in the UK so if the police have reason to believe she lied then they can prosecute her.

But unless / until she is found guilty of perjury then she is just as innocent as he is.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

HeyUGuys hope you don't mind, I reported your post, because of the ongoing investigations.

[Leopoldina]

not guilty on 12 charges in half a day's deliberation. That's pretty damn fast.