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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that women shouldn't need 'safe havens'

55 replies

skylerwhite · 07/08/2013 13:52

The Lord Mayor of Melbourne is proposing safe havens for women. This smacks of women ghettos to me. What a stupid, stupid, ill-thought out and offensive policy.

OP posts:
NeoMaxiZoomDweebie · 07/08/2013 18:08

YANBU it's highly offensive. Why can;'t the whole fucking CITY be safe?

runningonwillpower · 07/08/2013 18:10

I'm curious to know the converse of the policy.

Stray out of the 'safe haven' and you're fair game?

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie · 07/08/2013 18:12

Exactly Running

SofiaVagueara · 07/08/2013 18:16

Everywhere should be safe for women to go. But in reality they are not.

I have to say if something happens like you lose your purse and need to be picked up or need a safe place to meet people it could be useful to know there is somewhere that you will be totally secure.

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy · 07/08/2013 18:18

Well, if you mean the city should be safe, of course you are right.

But since it isn't, I think this is sadly perhaps a sensible measure.

I know I would feel reassured.

Tee2072 · 07/08/2013 18:18

What a stupid idea.

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy · 07/08/2013 18:19

(I do think it is properly shit it is needed, don't get me wrong. Cos it's a bit like saying 'but why did you go outside', isn't it?)

GetStuffezd · 07/08/2013 18:23

Fucking hell. Why should women have to cower away in "safe havens?" Why can't we just go about our normal lives in the knowledge that those who harm us will face the full force of the law?

You can just see some vile defence lawyer questioning some attack victim in court, can't you? "You chose NOT to travel via safe haven, Madam - why exactly was this?"

flatpackhamster · 07/08/2013 18:23

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie
YANBU it's highly offensive. Why can;'t the whole fucking CITY be safe?

Name me a city - any city, in the whole of history - that was 'safe'.

There's your answer.

runningonwillpower · 07/08/2013 18:23

But LRDY, women are half the adult population. Their needs/safety are not 'special'.

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy · 07/08/2013 18:28

You're not surprising me, running. Sad

Sorry, I'm just in one of those defeatist moods.

But it's true - and I think, for goodness' sake 'when was any city safe?' is not a valid question. That isn't how we cured diseases that ravaged the population. We should do the same here: yes, spaces aren't safe for women, but they should be.

I do see that, and I agree.

Saffyz · 07/08/2013 18:28

YANBU. Women are entitled to go wherever they like and to be safe.

Original poster
skylerwhite · 07/08/2013 18:30

I don't think the answer to violence against women is corralling them all into open-air pens. It's so outrageous. Women are equal citizens in Australia - they should be able to go anywhere. And certainly should not be encouraged to remain within certain zones of the city. What's next - a curfew? Such misogyny.

OP posts:
LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy · 07/08/2013 18:31

And in answer to flatpack, I would say Nippur. Or Memphis. Or Athens. Or course, those cities were only ever safe for certain very lucky men.

So why shouldn't we aspire to more?

flatpackhamster · 07/08/2013 18:36

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy

And in answer to flatpack, I would say Nippur. Or Memphis. Or Athens. Or course, those cities were only ever safe for certain very lucky men.

So why shouldn't we aspire to more?

Could I have a spaceship then? After all, we're aspiring.

The whole premise is ridiculous. What's even more ridiculous is the idea that you can make cities 'safe'.

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy · 07/08/2013 18:41

Well, as you can doubtless tell, I'm half agreeing with you.

But I am doing that and feeling very sad.

I think we can agree it is horribly sad, isn't it?

I mean, I am pretty upset that it's so normal that we can't expect cities to be safe for women. I think that's horrible. And it's not just women - black men, and gay men, and all sorts of other groups face the same thing. It's actually a minority of people who feel safe in any public area. Now that's really sad, surely?

McNewPants2013 · 07/08/2013 18:45

Nobody is forcing a women to use the safe havens, but there are routes that are being watched and if women feel safer using those routes I really don't see the issue.

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy · 07/08/2013 18:46

Well, isn't there an issue if there are areas where women aren't safe?

I do think it is good - practically - if there are areas where women will know they are safe. But there should be more than that.

McNewPants2013 · 07/08/2013 18:49

I know more could be done, but its a start.

flatpackhamster · 07/08/2013 18:49

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy

I think we can agree it is horribly sad, isn't it?

Sad that anyone would attempt to make this a gender issue, yes. Aren't men statistically far more likely to be the recipients of violence? The old 'Friday night fight' cases are almost all men. A quick browse through the A&E stats for a weekend would corroborate that.

I mean, I am pretty upset that it's so normal that we can't expect cities to be safe for women. I think that's horrible. And it's not just women - black men, and gay men, and all sorts of other groups face the same thing. It's actually a minority of people who feel safe in any public area. Now that's really sad, surely?

I think that if you want somewhere to be safe for people, you have to filter the people that are allowed in that space. If you try to build a society that says 'people should be like this' you'll fail and fail horribly. If you try to build a world which recognises the limitations of humans and builds to mitigate their excesses, you might have more success.

Original poster
skylerwhite · 07/08/2013 18:53

This seems to have stemmed from a horrible rape and murder of an Irishwoman in Melbourne last year. She was abducted from an area in which there was loads of CCTV. CCTV didn't stop her killer or keep her safe.

OP posts:
LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy · 07/08/2013 18:56

flat - but it is a gender issue. You've explained it yourself. You do get that men are a gender, right? Confused

Violence is almost always gendered.

It is the single biggest factor in seeing how violence works.

We really need to target it on this basis -and, shortly after that, we need to look at race, and economic status, and all sorts of other features.

It is terribly sad that you think the answer is to filter society - what do you do with the rest of society?! What do you do when you have the women, and the black men and women, and so on? All those people you talk about as if it's ok for them to be victims - how do they escape being beaten up?

This is a real question. Honestly: where do you imagine they would go? Because you say you'llnfind somewhere 'safe' - but where? Is it a ghetto? If it is ... now how is that going to work?

I think instead of thinking how well safe spaces will work for the minority, we need to start thinking, does the majority need a huge rocket under its arse?

Original poster
skylerwhite · 07/08/2013 18:57

I think that if you want somewhere to be safe for people, you have to filter the people that are allowed in that space. If you try to build a society that says 'people should be like this' you'll fail and fail horribly. If you try to build a world which recognises the limitations of humans and builds to mitigate their excesses, you might have more success.

What do you mean? Not let men into these spaces? Women-only spaces? Or somehow make allowances for the fact that it is overwhelmingly men who commit violence - against other men and against women. How exactly do you do that?

OP posts:
LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy · 07/08/2013 18:57

Btw - I would say, one of the hugely important reasons for thinking of men as a gender is to look at what can happen to black men. A lad I grew up with, who is amazing and hard working, has fallen foul of this. He just happens to be male and black.

flatpackhamster · 07/08/2013 19:00

LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy

flat - but it is a gender issue. You've explained it yourself. You do get that men are a gender, right? confused

Violence is almost always gendered.

In that a gender is involved???

It is the single biggest factor in seeing how violence works.

For marxists, yes.

We really need to target it on this basis -and, shortly after that, we need to look at race, and economic status, and all sorts of other features.

For marxists, yes.

It is terribly sad that you think the answer is to filter society - what do you do with the rest of society?!

I didn't say it was 'the answer'. I said it was the only way to achieve a non-violent place.

What do you do when you have the women, and the black men and women, and so on? All those people you talk about as if it's ok for them to be victims - how do they escape being beaten up?

Yes, because it's only evil white males what do the hitting.

This is a real question. Honestly: where do you imagine they would go? Because you say you'llnfind somewhere 'safe' - but where? Is it a ghetto? If it is ... now how is that going to work?

That's my point. Your fantasy of a safe place is unachievable, so you might as well forget it and start working on my spaceship.

I think instead of thinking how well safe spaces will work for the minority, we need to start thinking, does the majority need a huge rocket under its arse?

I think you need to stop reflecting everything through the distorted prism of far-left feminism.