to think that women shouldn't need 'safe havens'

[skylerwhite]

The Lord Mayor of Melbourne is proposing safe havens for women. This smacks of women ghettos to me. What a stupid, stupid, ill-thought out and offensive policy.

It's all the fault of those pesky marxists and far-left feminists, clearly.

flat - sorry, I don't quite follow you?

What did you mean exactly?

I've got to apologize - I'm sorry, I don't know anything about Marxism. If that's your person belief I totally respect it, but I'm afraid I can't really follow it.

I think flatpack is using marxist as a term of abuse, LRD.

Flatpack Friday night fights, as you put it, are intensely gendered.

Ah, ok.

Well, sorry, I am not a specialist in Marxism, even as a term of abuse, so flat you might need to find someone else who is into that.

Personally I just tend to look at this from a feminist perspective. It is probably very under-theorized if you are very academic, so please don't feel you have to explain the Marxism stuff to me!

I just meant, I didn't quite get why women needed safe havens overall. I agree with skyler that it is a sad indication of how our society works, that this exists. As a rather sadly defeated feminist, I can (unfortunately) see that in practical terms, a safe space may be useful. But I wish to goodness we didn't need it.:-(

Why are you feeling so sadly-defeated, LRD?

Oh, I'm fine skyler, just didn't want to be rude on your thread, and I realized I'd managed to see so.

I agree that this seems like a step backwards.

Do CCTVs actually deter crime, or does it just mean that they are likely to find the perpetrator?

LRD: Be rude wherever you want to be rude! I'm not the thread police

breathe in the case which seems to have prompted this step, the CCTV helped to identify the perpetrator. Not sure if they actually deter crime in the first place.

You're not?!

But yes ... I do stand by what I said.

Look, I don't know how I feel about this. I am from this City, I grew up there and actually compared to London, though smaller, in some ways it is a far scarier place.

I was there for 3 weeks last August without children or husband and there are some serious social problems there involving drugs, poverty and general perversion.

Of course this will happen in any big city to an extent but considering Melbourne's population it is worrying.

There is a bigger issue of course but when I think about my mother finishing work and walking from the concert hall to Flinders St Station to get the train home I feel happier knowing they are looking out for her.

I don't know. I totally agree women shouldn't need a safe haven or special treatment in theory, if in practice that didn't put them in danger.

I am lets say past my prime and I got hassled to all hell walking through the city centre and certain inner city areas even in broad daylight. In some ways, it is a very uncouth society and we should be proud that the UK is as civilised as it is, even if there is scope for improvement.

How about rounding up all the men who see women as second-class citizens and keeping them in a "dangerous haven"?

tatty - I absolutely see what you are saying.

But it seems not me that really none of us are disagreeing?

You want your mum to be safe.

I want my lovely SIL to be safe,

But god knows ideally we all want everyone to be safe.

My feeling is, if this move is the fist of many - great! I think we need this and we need many more, and eventually we need everywhere to be safe for women. Of course we do.

Meantime, frankly, I think anything that is safe for women is good. If it's treated as a ghetto for women, we can get up in arms about it, too.

If that were possible Saffyz (the ones who are not already in prison) that'd be ideal. At least CCTV will make it more likely they end up in the "safe haven" that is prison.

Totally LRD

Well, none of us are disagreeing apart from the marxist-feminist-phobic posters...

I can see that practically it's a good thing if women are safer, but I think it sends a really dangerous message to women - that there are only certain areas they can safely go into, and that they are somehow to blame if they stray outside these areas and are attacked.

Yes, it would be a great shame if that were the culture it created Skylerwhite

If they want to install more CCTV then DO IT ACROSS THE CITY not in sections! Then they can victim blame I suppose though..."Oh well we do provide safe zones...she just wasn't IN one when she got raped/beaten up/murdered.....

I'm not sure that I feel much safer knowing that they have CCTV to catch the person who attacks me. I just don't want to be attacked int the first place.

Totally agree breatheslowly. However CCTV isn't just after the fact. There are armed police officers swarming around these built up areas like flies (all police are armed in Melbourne, different debate as to whether this is good or not, not necessarily saying it is or isn't). And these CCTV cameras are manned live - so you might be in the process of being attacked and a minute later 4 armed police turn up and arrest the assailant...not too shabby, in the absence of people behaving nicely.

I know a lot can happen in 30 seconds or a minute, but its better than being dragged into a bush in the middle of nowhere and being forced to testify with little evidence 18 months later. Honestly, I don't know, I think you'd almost have to be a victim before you really knew how to feel about all this, and I haven't been, and I have no idea who has or hasn't been, but I think while there are predators (male or female) in the world there is no ideal world. If something terrible comes from this initiative it should be tackled. If it simply means a reduction in crime in an area, great. If it means victim blaming, that will be tackled. If it means more safe areas, so be it. I don't know...the whole thing is kind of disappointing really. The need, as opposed to the proposed "solution". I think we are united on that...

Apart from thinking it shouldn't need to exist, does anyone actually disapprove/disagree with the the Night initiative? www.reclaimthenight.org/