to think that women shouldn't need 'safe havens'

[skylerwhite]

The Lord Mayor of Melbourne is proposing safe havens for women. This smacks of women ghettos to me. What a stupid, stupid, ill-thought out and offensive policy.

[ayahushca]

I think it's pretty ludicrous tbh, and would be funny if it wasn't so ghastly. It sounds like they're proposing a female version of Mecca fgs.

I think it's alarmist, divisive, and bad for both sexes. Cities are generally getting safer for women (and men), there's still improvement to do but there will always be a few horrrible incidents and murders in any society, it's not a sign of a system failing, it's a tragic fact of life. They should work on making the whole city safe for women. But this sends out a terrible message: "All is lost women! Renounce the streets! Into the Femdome and seal the locks!" Is there going to be an entry zone where you need to scan your genitals to pass or something, and those with dicks get turned back? Checkpoint cockblock?

[TattyDevine]

Hahaha Zaty, well done you for raising 1000+ well behaved boys. You should write a book!

Trust me violent men are locked up in Melbourne, often for longer than in the UK, due to the lesser burden on the penal system. (Ironic seeing Australia started out as a penal colony)

As I said earlier, it is much easier to lock up violent men if you have evidence (as provided by CCTV footage and identification) than if it does not exist in the first place.

[zatyaballerina]

They could easily make the city safer by locking up violent men for longer and punishing even low level harassment severely so that aggressive men don't get the chance to escalate their behaviour. Sexually aggressive men shouldn't be allowed out on the streets, at some point they will rape or try to, stick an electronic monitor on them and let them stay at home. Their parents should house, feed and have to supervise them in public as punishment for not raising them properly, that alone would scare more bad parents into teaching their boys right from wrong.

Rapists are made, not born.

[TattyDevine]

Its basically all about women being able to go out at night wearing what they want, where they want, at whatever hour they want, like men do, without being either victims of crime or victim blamed if they are victims of crime. It started in the UK.

[TattyDevine]

Total link fail

reclaim the night

[TattyDevine]

Apart from thinking it shouldn't need to exist, does anyone actually disapprove/disagree with the the Night initiative? www.reclaimthenight.org/

[TattyDevine]

I know a lot can happen in 30 seconds or a minute, but its better than being dragged into a bush in the middle of nowhere and being forced to testify with little evidence 18 months later. Honestly, I don't know, I think you'd almost have to be a victim before you really knew how to feel about all this, and I haven't been, and I have no idea who has or hasn't been, but I think while there are predators (male or female) in the world there is no ideal world. If something terrible comes from this initiative it should be tackled. If it simply means a reduction in crime in an area, great. If it means victim blaming, that will be tackled. If it means more safe areas, so be it. I don't know...the whole thing is kind of disappointing really. The need, as opposed to the proposed "solution". I think we are united on that...

[TattyDevine]

Totally agree breatheslowly. However CCTV isn't just after the fact. There are armed police officers swarming around these built up areas like flies (all police are armed in Melbourne, different debate as to whether this is good or not, not necessarily saying it is or isn't). And these CCTV cameras are manned live - so you might be in the process of being attacked and a minute later 4 armed police turn up and arrest the assailant...not too shabby, in the absence of people behaving nicely.

[breatheslowly]

I'm not sure that I feel much safer knowing that they have CCTV to catch the person who attacks me. I just don't want to be attacked int the first place.

[NeoMaxiZoomDweebie]

If they want to install more CCTV then DO IT ACROSS THE CITY not in sections! Then they can victim blame I suppose though..."Oh well we do provide safe zones...she just wasn't IN one when she got raped/beaten up/murdered.....

[TattyDevine]

Yes, it would be a great shame if that were the culture it created Skylerwhite

[skylerwhite]

Well, none of us are disagreeing apart from the marxist-feminist-phobic posters...

I can see that practically it's a good thing if women are safer, but I think it sends a really dangerous message to women - that there are only certain areas they can safely go into, and that they are somehow to blame if they stray outside these areas and are attacked.

[TattyDevine]

Totally LRD

[TattyDevine]

If that were possible Saffyz (the ones who are not already in prison) that'd be ideal. At least CCTV will make it more likely they end up in the "safe haven" that is prison.

[LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy]

tatty - I absolutely see what you are saying.

But it seems not me that really none of us are disagreeing?

You want your mum to be safe.

I want my lovely SIL to be safe,

But god knows ideally we all want everyone to be safe.

My feeling is, if this move is the fist of many - great! I think we need this and we need many more, and eventually we need everywhere to be safe for women. Of course we do.

Meantime, frankly, I think anything that is safe for women is good. If it's treated as a ghetto for women, we can get up in arms about it, too.

[Saffyz]

How about rounding up all the men who see women as second-class citizens and keeping them in a "dangerous haven"?

[TattyDevine]

I am lets say past my prime and I got hassled to all hell walking through the city centre and certain inner city areas even in broad daylight. In some ways, it is a very uncouth society and we should be proud that the UK is as civilised as it is, even if there is scope for improvement.

[TattyDevine]

Look, I don't know how I feel about this. I am from this City, I grew up there and actually compared to London, though smaller, in some ways it is a far scarier place.

I was there for 3 weeks last August without children or husband and there are some serious social problems there involving drugs, poverty and general perversion.

Of course this will happen in any big city to an extent but considering Melbourne's population it is worrying.

There is a bigger issue of course but when I think about my mother finishing work and walking from the concert hall to Flinders St Station to get the train home I feel happier knowing they are looking out for her.

I don't know. I totally agree women shouldn't need a safe haven or special treatment in theory, if in practice that didn't put them in danger.

[LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy]

You're not?!

But yes ... I do stand by what I said.

[skylerwhite]

breathe in the case which seems to have prompted this step, the CCTV helped to identify the perpetrator. Not sure if they actually deter crime in the first place.

[skylerwhite]

LRD: Be rude wherever you want to be rude! I'm not the thread police

[breatheslowly]

I agree that this seems like a step backwards.

Do CCTVs actually deter crime, or does it just mean that they are likely to find the perpetrator?

[LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy]

Oh, I'm fine skyler, just didn't want to be rude on your thread, and I realized I'd managed to see so.

[skylerwhite]

Why are you feeling so sadly-defeated, LRD?

[LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy]

Ah, ok.

Well, sorry, I am not a specialist in Marxism, even as a term of abuse, so flat you might need to find someone else who is into that.

Personally I just tend to look at this from a feminist perspective. It is probably very under-theorized if you are very academic, so please don't feel you have to explain the Marxism stuff to me!

I just meant, I didn't quite get why women needed safe havens overall. I agree with skyler that it is a sad indication of how our society works, that this exists. As a rather sadly defeated feminist, I can (unfortunately) see that in practical terms, a safe space may be useful. But I wish to goodness we didn't need it.:-(