What to do about neurotic YR 5/6 teachers?

[AnnaLiza]

I'm not saying that my DSs are saints but the teachers of previous years have never complained about their behaviour at school! Since the beginning of this academic year, though, the two female teachers for Yrs 5 and 6 are telling them off and making them cry at least once a week! For example:
DS1 (yr 6) got badly told off for bouncing a ball while he was walking to the assembly line and the ball was confiscated for two days.
DS2 (yr 5) got into serious trouble for flicking a pencil during a lesson.
DS1 got shouted at for talking during a lesson and for daring to say that other people were talking too.
Also they tell me that one of these two teachers refers to some other children as "idiots" and the other one is shouting half of the time and almost always at boys only.
AIBU or this is totally unacceptable?

Annaliz- kids underplay their own misbehaviour and exaggerate the 'injustice' they suffer.

The more you listen and indulge, the more they will complain.

If you don't support the school, you'll teach them that it's ok to challenge authority, not to respect a punishment or sanction and that their feelings are more important than those of the other pupils in their class.

Answering back, disruptive behaviour and breaking school rules are all low level challenges- much better for a school to have high standards than allowing a few students disrupting learning for everyone else.

Your 10/11 year old cried because he was told off for bouncing a ball? And he cries at least once a week over similar things?

Talking during the lesson disrupts it for others, no wonder he was told off. And 'daring to tell the teacher other people were talking' would be backchat.

YABU about the tellings off - I am sure that a yr 6 child should know better than to bounce a ball whilst joining a line. Imagine if 30 children were doing it, should the teacher just let them. Of course children shouldn't flick pencils, would you be ok with your child being hurt? Teachers regularly tell children off for talking during a lesson and although I sympathise that others were perhaps doing it too, unfortunately shit happens. Sometimes you get caught!

I would be concerned if a teacher called my dd an idiot, are you sure this is what happened?

I work in a school. I would tell children off for all the things in your list too, and the ball would be confiscated till the end of term. Have you ever been hit by a flicked pencil? It hurts!

I think you need to tell your children to be better behaved.

Do nothing at all re teachers. Tell your boys to behave. It's time they stopped messing about, preventing their own and others' learning.

Are you sure that you're getting the whole story?

I think the ball should be confiscated and if the pencil was flicked at an inappropriate time or hit someone then I'd expect them to be told off.

My dd is in Y5 and if ball bouncing was ok then she'd chat or skip (equally minor but annoying for a teacher) and if the pencil hit her, she'd definitely tell off your son.

Absolutely agree with ohfunnyface. You need to back the teachers up, not undermine them for the sake of your childrens' long term behaviour. If you keep indulging them you may find them hard to control when they are teenagers as they will lose respect for any authority.

Being told off for messing around (which they were) is fine, shouting a lot is not.

However I would take your ds's reports with a pinch of salt. I find that children use the term 'shouted at' to mean being sternly told off even if there was no raising of voices. I don't know if this is what your dss mean as I don't know them or their situation.

Using the term idiot is also could be taken too ways. I have on occasions called my year 6s idiots, but only in a gentle teasing way when they have done something daft - and I always do it with a smile so their is no doubt. Again I don't know what is happening in this situation as I don't know the people involved.

The gender issue is a red herring (being female teachers has nothing to do with it). Boys of this age are more likely to get told off for indulging in silly behaviour because their maturity levels are often behind girls (not always though - I have a few immature girls who get regularly reprimanded).

I agree with the posts above. Your sons are old enough to realise that poor behaviour has consequences and you should be supporting the school.

No Yr 6 child should be bouncing a ball as they walk to assembly. Your DS1 would have known damn well that it wasn't exactly top of the "recommended things to do as you walk to assembly" list. He got told off for it - absolutely fair enough.

No Yr5 child should be flicking pencils - again, being told off can hardly have come as a surprise to him.

Just because other children are talking in class, it doesn't mean it's necessarily OK - and yes, your DS would be able to know when it is and isn't OK. This is his 7th year of education - he knows the score (SN excepted). He's pushing the boundaries, which Yr6 children are notorious for - your role, though, is to support the school in reinforcing where those boundaries are, not in belittling the staff with words like "neurotic".

That should be two not too!

You have got to be having a laugh.

You should be telling your sons off for their misbehaviour instead of criticising the teachers for dealing with it.

With regards to the crying, are other children crying or just your sons? My dd is imho overly sensitive but has never cried after being told off by a teacher (she's a chatterbox so almost definitely been told off)

Perhaps DCs are having a little hormone surge? Perhaps that coupled with the excitement and stress that the last year of PS can bring, could explain any change. This has happened to a number of friends' DCs in the past. However, you know your DCs better than anyone, so if you feel that such a change is unlikely I would approach the teachers as making a child cry so often is uncalled for, unless you DCs were born with their bladders too near their eyes as one of mine was! I wouldn't go in heavy handed with a list of examples as this could make you look a bit pfb. If it were me, I would try and catch both together and say something along the lines of:

'Mrs/Mr X, the DC's have been telling me that you don't seem to be very happy with them quite a lot of the time at the moment, do you think that this change in their behaviour / attitude is something to worry about? Is there anything we can work on at home?'

Then if needed, I would address/ challenge their responses accordingly.

As for calling children idiots, that is a appaling, but IMO not something you can address without conclusive proof (DCs do somtimes exagerate about teachers they don't get along with --- I know I did.)

HTH

You have got to be kidding. Discipline your sons.

Yup, the behaviours described are silly & too right they'd get spoken to sharply for either of them.

By year 5/6 both boys should know better.

Also, even assuming that you think the teachers are coming down on them too harshly, you might be better using words like 'strict', rather than 'neurotic'.

My tutor group are year 8, & I can assure you, I know which parents supported their children by ensuring they know how to behave by the end of primary, & which...well, didn't. It does the dc no favours.

YABU. For all of the reasons given above.

Support the school.

It does sound seemingly trivial stuff BUT its the underlaying message of disobedience/disrespect that bothers me not the individual incidents. I do think though that sometimes teachers are a bit harsher on boys (but in the lower years) due to different emotional needs and their being a bit too active ALL the time , at this age I would think everyone knows better. Am quoting a teacher friend on the boys being a bit full on when younger and as Ds is 3 I can see where she's coming from but your guys should be past this?

What were the teachers versions of events?

because clearly if they are being made to cry every week you will have already spoken to them.

YANBU I reckon your DS's are lucky they've never been shouted at and 'in trouble' in the lower years of the school. In my E. a number of teachers don't enjoy the exuberance of boys.

DS1 was in a class where the teacher was pointedly mean to bright boys. DD2 had been in that class and she knew the teacher only liked girls. Weirder still I knew the woman socially and she had 2 bright boys of her own

All you can do is have a chat with the Head and gently point out the problem, although unless you know other parents who have the same difficulty you'll be lucky if the Head is sympathetic. Good luck

They need to learn to behave. How do you know they are being reduced to tears by being (rightfully) told off, btw? Do they really come home and say "Mum, I cried my eyes out today when Miss told me off"? Too dramatic for words.

Agree they shouldn't have done those things but they're children for goodness sake! I have heard one of the two teachers shout a lot and over silly stuff like leaving a door open (during parents' evening). She admits she's stressed and can't wait to retire. The other one apparently refers to children doing something wrong as idiots and not in a joking way.
Yes I was surprised too why they said they actually cry. They're big boys and hardly we've cry at home. Clearly something is not right and yes I think it's unnecessary to be overly mean for minor misdemeanours

*hardly ever cry at home