What to do about neurotic YR 5/6 teachers?

[AnnaLiza]

I'm not saying that my DSs are saints but the teachers of previous years have never complained about their behaviour at school! Since the beginning of this academic year, though, the two female teachers for Yrs 5 and 6 are telling them off and making them cry at least once a week! For example:
DS1 (yr 6) got badly told off for bouncing a ball while he was walking to the assembly line and the ball was confiscated for two days.
DS2 (yr 5) got into serious trouble for flicking a pencil during a lesson.
DS1 got shouted at for talking during a lesson and for daring to say that other people were talking too.
Also they tell me that one of these two teachers refers to some other children as "idiots" and the other one is shouting half of the time and almost always at boys only.
AIBU or this is totally unacceptable?

Seabird, I'd find that hard to believe actually, but how bloody depressing if it were the case.

As a clearly "neurotic" year5/6 teacher, the first thing I say to my new class every September is that it is my job to prepare them academically and socially for secondary school. That means they are responsible for their own actions and behaviour. Ball bouncing and pencil throwing are clearly not what is expected/tolerated in any class ( and nor should they be!) and will be dealt with severely. Answering back is disruptive and disrespectful, it is not "daring". Secondary teachers won't put up with such rubbish, neither will I

"Secondary teachers won't put up with such rubbish"

Hmm, well according to my DCs, there are a fair few who do. It pisses me off, this assumption that poor behaviour can be tolerated at primary level but goodness me, they need to get their act together for secondary. Er... NO? Good behaviour should be a given regardless of age. Some children, however, are handicapped by their parents' determination to excuse their every bit of "high spirits," and have no idea or care that they're ruining the education of everyone around them.

Why do you believe your children?! My DS is in year 3 and if if I believed his version if events, then I would believe that he has been told off several times recently for things that are not his fault or just disciplined for no reason at all! Perhaps I should go into school and complain about how 'unfair' this all is?

When he tells me that he got a detention because "Bob was distracting me" - I interpret that to mean that he was talking to Bob during a lesson & I remind him that he can only be distracted if he wants to be. Or that he has been moved to sit beside the teacher at carpet time - but there is no reason for this... It's then pretty obvious to me that he has been chatting/not listening during registration. It's usually quite easy to read between the lines!

I refuse to sympathise with him. I remind him that his teacher is being paid to do a job that she trained hard for and that it is extremely rude of him to ignore her while she is teaching.

If he was bouncing a ball or flicking pencils - I would want the teacher to tell him off. He needs to behave at school and with a class of 25 to teach, the teacher needs the class to concentrate and to behave respectfully.

Don't get me wrong, I too think good behaviour should be commonplace whatever the age. The response to poor behaviour can be rather different at secondary however. Primary teachers might "badly tell off" ( to quote the OP) a misbehaving child, a secondary teacher might simply give them detention! ( although I would agree, there are some soft touches at secondary too

festivedigestive If a child is sent to me for bad behaviour, I straightaway ask why they are here. The moment they start with "Well, Freddie was...." I'm afraid I stop them in their tracks and ask them to begin their sentence with "I..."

Clam I'm with you on that. Usually a long, rambling tale involving many names and details is cut down to a few words: 'I was talking instead of listening.'

exoticfruits "I am heartened by the responses- nice to know that people don't expect teachers to put up with poor behaviour ."

IME that's true for most parents...until it's their child who's getting told off for something that 'couldn't possibly be their fault'

Taking this point by point...

"DS1 (yr 6) got badly told off for bouncing a ball while he was walking to the assembly line and the ball was confiscated for two days."

Possibly not unreasonable to object to this. He should have been told to put the ball away first, and then only upon failure to do this should the ball have been confiscated and the reprimand given. There is no point playing hell with kids over rule breaches if they aren't aware that they are breaching any rules.

"DS2 (yr 5) got into serious trouble for flicking a pencil during a lesson."

This is patently silly behaviour in a classroom and you can expect any kid to get into trouble for this.

"DS1 got shouted at for talking during a lesson and for daring to say that other people were talking too."

This is a situation in which the teacher has lost control of the classroom and has resorted to picking on random talkers in a doomed-to-fail attempt to re-establish order. Having said that, "daring to say that other people were talking too" counts as backchat and will be punished by any teacher anywhere, regardless of whether or not the comment is true.

"Also they tell me that one of these two teachers refers to some other children as "idiots" and the other one is shouting half of the time and almost always at boys only."

Referring to any pupils as idiots is unacceptable, yes. And raising one's voice on a regular basis is pretty much the opposite of good teaching practice.

'Possibly not unreasonable to object to this. He should have been told to put the ball away first, and then only upon failure to do this should the ball have been confiscated and the reprimand given. There is no point playing hell with kids over rule breaches if they aren't aware that they are breaching any rules.'

I think you might find that is a standard expectation and rule in most school playgrounds, the bell or whistle goes and you walk to the line. No bouncing or whatnot. Balls are put in the correct outside location or held whilst going inside.
Or are you suggesting that there is no rule in existence that the child is aware of?
Do you have any idea what the playground lineup would look like if that was the case?
Massive timewasting exercise to constantly repeat a rule that all the children know, because one cheeky child chooses to express their individuality and dimness in a single act.

Have you considered home educating them, to avoid the trauma of secondary?

ThursdayWillBeTheDay

Classic
AIBU- Yes
No, I'm not
Yes you are
NO I AM NOT-flounce

Seems to me it's not the teachers being neurotic here.

"I'm all in favour of telling children off if they're disruptive but within reason bearing in mind that just because they're children they shouldn't be forced into submission by adults in charge. "

My nephew spent four years in a class with three children who were not forced into submission. As a result, he had a miserable time and learnt nothing; there was just too much disruption going on for the teacher to be able to do her job. I think my nephew would probably like the OP to explain why his desire to be able to learn was less important than the other children's desire not to be forced into submission.

If one child is being disruptive, then every child in the class who doesn't like disruption is de facto being forced into submission.

YABbloodyridiculous.

A bit of humanity from some of the posters and teachers at school is not a lot to ask. I taught in a school where the Head was literally Miss Trunchbull . T.A. s were screaming at and man handling sick 5 yr olds (to no avail incidentally). All the DCs learned there was to hate school.

Crikey, it's a bit of a leap from confiscating a ball which is being messed around with and telling a kid to stop talking to being an inhumane tyrant!

Incidentally, the 'but it wasn't just me' whine is the bane of most teachers' lives. Were you talking? Yes? Then simply shut up and maybe I can then get on with telling the other kids to shut up too. Some kids are completely deaf to any instruction which doesn't explicitly include their name, so if you tell the class to be quiet they don't listen, but also if you tell other kids off they don't listen. 'Miss is always picking on me' tends to mean 'I'm not listening when Miss tells anyone else off so I'm going to claim that she never tells anyone else off'.

Grr.

I suspect that your children are starting to get teenage hormones. (Or at least the year 6 child.)

Older children are often less meek and compliant than younger children. I imagine that your children were easier to manage at school than in the past.

You have my sympathy. My year 6 son is convinced that homework belongs in the recycling bin. We have a young teacher who is desperate to win every blardy battle. She has never taught year 6 before and has no children of her own.

Ds wrote three words in an English lesson. The teacher kept him in to do the work over lunchtime and ds still did no work. She then made him miss his favourite lesson of the week "science" to do the work. I feel this was a mistake as my son now hates her even more and will do even less work for her.

He believes that refusing to do home work for her, being late for school and doing no work in class is way of hurting her. He is far to immature to see that he is damaging himself. His stroppiness has got him moved down a maths table.

I will have a meeting with his teacher in the new year.

Reallytired, it seems to me that it is how you support the school that will be key in dealing with your DS. Refusing to work and refusing to follow instructions is a pretty big deal, as is choosing not to work for a teacher you don't like. If your DS isn't given this message loud and clear from all corners now, he will be a nightmare at secondary.

If the teacher an't get through to him, then it's up to you to pick up the slack, Reallytired. . I'm assuming you didn't share your opinion that being sanctioned for refusing to work was a "mistake" with your son.

Floggingmolly, noblegiraffe I don't disagree with my son being punished. I think it was right that he was kept in over lunch to do his work. I feel that making him miss the lesson after lunch was a step too far. I feel that if a child is behaving that badly then the teacher should tell the parents or senior management. My son's teacher has done neither. I have asked for the appointment with the teacher, rather than the other way round.

Science is a national curriculum subject and the work done in a science lesson is important as well. It would have made more sense to have punished my son by making him do his English work during Golden time.

I'm sorry I thought we were talking about a primary school not the fucking army!!! YANBU the teachers need to get a grip, primary school is supposed to be a safe and fun place to learn. Unless the teachers are Hitler's descendants and then I can understand their punishments!!!

It amuses me when people come on here asking for advice then run off in a strop when others disagree with them!

I'm guessing by your post hoobledoo you are not a primary teacher?