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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask your views on MRAs?

134 replies

HoldYourBunFire · 30/06/2011 21:49

Ok (I have actually name changed for this!) please before I get my biscuits I would like to start by saying this thread is not intended to start any sort of bun fight. I am actually serious. There have been a few threads recently that have sparked my interest in this movement and the deeper I delve into it it's actually starting to look a lot less like a bunch of women bashing misogynists screaming "I hate feminism". There are actually quite a few genuine men out there trying to protest their rights particularly in regards to the family court system.

As the mother of a 3yo DS I am increasingly worried about what the attitude towards men is becoming? Quite a big generalization I know but you have to admit that there is quite alot of man hating going on out there (and in here). We all have Fathers, Brothers, Sons, Husbands etc..

I guess what I am trying to say is that in the face of Womens rights movments and feminism (which I truly thank God every day for as I know how hard my day to day life would be without them) have we forgotten Mens rights?

OP posts:
HerBeX · 30/06/2011 23:22

Oh how utterly dishonest you are. Of course this thread is intending to start a bunfight. And you are projecting - there is no man-hatred going on, but there's plenty of woman-hating, from MRA's who can't bear the thought of women expecting to be considered and treated as full human beings, not domestic and sexual servants.

And if you're the mother of a 3 yr old DS, I'm a banana.

HerBeX · 30/06/2011 23:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

BoysAreLikeDogs · 30/06/2011 23:24

what is MRA please?

JeremyVile · 30/06/2011 23:31

Yes we've definitely forgotten menz rights Sad

They only have something like 98% of the worlds wealth, of those accused of rape only something like 94% go unconvicted.

Itz a fucking scandal.

JeremyVile · 30/06/2011 23:33

I believe its Menz Rights Activists BALD (lovely lovely BALD)

giyadas · 30/06/2011 23:34

From what I gleaned from the recent thread, MRA = Misogynistic Rape Advocate.

HowlingBitch · 30/06/2011 23:54

Right bugger it. I am the OP. I changed my name because I was on another thread and made some unsavoury limerick about a male poster and didn't want to seem TOO hypocritical.

I'm not a troll and I don't want to upset anyone. I'm just genuinely concerned about some people attitudes and towards men. To talk about the male population in such a general way and with such derogatory terms and with such hate can actually be quite insulting to the men in our lives who we love and to the women who love them. To say there is no man hatred is IMO dishonest. I have a wonderful DS with his whole life ahead of him and to see some of the stuff that has been written is actually sad. Is this all he is expected to be? A rich rapist?

HerBeX · 01/07/2011 22:17

Look, pointing out what men as a class, do to women as a class, is not manhating. Men who call feminists man-haters, are ascribing to them the hatred they actually have for women. 1/4 of women get raped or sexually assaulted by men; 1/4 get beaten up by the men who they live with and who claim to love them; 2 women a week get murdered by their partners or ex-partners - that is woman-hatred. Visceral, vicious woman-hating.

Women are not doing that to men, we don't hate them tht much. If you are genuine and really want to learn about why men whingeing about the fact that women are not as oppressed as they used to be, is a load of wank, stick around the feminist section and read and learn. If you're not genuine, just do one, because nobody's interested in MRA trolls.

HerBeX · 01/07/2011 22:18

AFAIK all or at least most of the women on the feminist board have men in their lives whom they love and care for. So don't give us that insulting bollocks about wanting the men in and out of our lives to be decent human beings, is man-hating. We're not interested.

xstitch · 01/07/2011 22:19

I can assure you my XH has plenty of rights I on the other hand have none. Happy now?

HowlingBitch · 02/07/2011 14:31

HerBeX Your insulting dismissive attitude is the reason I (and many other women) Do not go near the feminist section I'm afraid. I have seen what happens to the people there who do not know ever statistic under the sun and even the ones that do and still have an argument in a males favour they are still flamed and called a troll and or a man. (I generalize of course but it does happen quite abit)

I'm 22. I honestly admit I have much to learn on the subject but it is hard not to be intimidated. What I have written could be a bunch of bullshit but if you have read what I have said you will see that it is a question. Would it be so hard to be constructive instead of coming at me with numbers, swearing and being sarcastic (not to mention patronizing).

Why can't you as a women fighting for the rights of women talk to me (a women) with even a little more kindness?

RottenTiming · 02/07/2011 14:58

Ah yes, men's rights......MRA the notion that mens rights are currently being trampled into the ground due to systems being allegedly skewed in favour of women.

No, I've thought about the validity of championing men's rights being an urgent issue causing undue hardship and needing to be urgently addressed but until men's responsibilities in general are being taken seriously and fulfilled, lets say in respect of contributing to a reasonable extent, to the financial welfare of all children that they have fathered then their rights will not be taken seriously.

There are many single mother posters on here whose ex (male) partners are being accorded their rights to see their children but who duck their financial and emotional responsibilities relating to those children wherever/however they can.

Responsibilities/rights.... see, the two go together in a civilised society.

For god's sake Cameron et al get a move on with stigmatising feckless fathers, turn the tables as soon as possible. A feckless father can easily avoid any stigma by manning up and supporting his children. A single mother had to provide a new father for her children to get away from the stigma previously associated with single mums. (Note - society only reduced the stigma of a single mum when was being taken care of by another man - this is why the comcept of needing MRA is a joke to many but you are only 22 OP, in time the university of life will educate you).

SuchProspects · 02/07/2011 17:35

In theory I can see why a movement for divorced men who want to have more hands on responsibility for and care of their children would grow up in British society. As a society, recently we have generally had a default expectation that children need their mothers more than their fathers (and a expectation that mothers are more responsible for children than fathers are). Whether you thing that's fair or not, it isn't surprising in such a set up that fathers who did want more responsibility might set up a movement to try and change society's view on this.

But the MRAs aren't about that. When men on those sites start asking for advice and looking for support it is all to do with the fight with the mother of their children and almost nothing to do with the care of those children themselves. The boards aren't full of posts asking how to potty train or deal with a biting child. They don't talk about the difficulty of trying to develop an emotional bond with their children without trying to "buy love". Nor how to develop a better relationship with their ex so the children won't suffer.

The boards are full of vitriol and bashing of their ex-partners. It's not surprising that boards frequented by divorced people contain a lot of anti-partner posts, but the lack of substantial posting about developing positive relationships with their children gives the lie to the idea that the movement is really about righting an injustice to their children. MRAs are about wanting more power in the fight with their Exs, not about the best interests of their children.

xstitch · 02/07/2011 17:38
KilledBill · 02/07/2011 17:40

Who gives a fuck about mens rights.

I dont.

They have it cushy, always have.

About time the tables turned. Probably wont though.

HowlingBitch · 02/07/2011 19:59

They don't talk about the difficulty of trying to develop an emotional bond with their children without trying to "buy love". Nor how to develop a better relationship with their ex so the children won't suffer.

You know I have noticed that too. I actually asked on one of these boards why there isn't any threads about vaccination questions or potty training etc and couldn't really get an answer. They seemed to feel very attacked about it and made out that I was trying to say men didn't care about these things then the thread got deleted. I was really just asking why the boards are full of news reports about horrible women and fantastic men. There was however one man asking advise on bullying but that's about it.

I would like to admit again I really don't know much about this stuff but there is only one way to learn I guess. I'm clearly defiantly not ready for the feminism section! :o

lizzie1180 · 02/07/2011 20:31

I think it's a disgrace that men do not have automatic parental rights if they are not married to the child's mother. I know they can now get joint responsibility when registering the birth but only if the mother agrees. I worked in a midwifery hospital. Complicated delivery and mother and baby were both critically ill. The father of the baby could not make decisions about the baby's care as he had no parental responsibility, it was the maternal grandmother as the mother's next of kin who made the decisions.

xstitch · 02/07/2011 21:02

You do realise there are also plenty of situations when the man has total control over the woman don't you?

BoneyBackJefferson · 02/07/2011 21:18

interesting that in the feminist section there is often talk about "men should start their own protests/groups and not hijack ours" etc.

yet when they do so they are seen not as advocates of mens (not menz) rights but as Misogynists.

seems that they can do no right.

BoneyBackJefferson · 02/07/2011 21:22

sorry should be men's

not mens

Truckrelented · 02/07/2011 21:56

I would have thought a possible reason there wouldn't be much call for potty training etc. on Men's rights sites is because they're on it because they don't get to see their children, hard to potty train someone you don't see.

Must admit I've never been on a MRA site though.

SuchProspects · 03/07/2011 07:02

Truck - Most men, even those on the MRA sites, have some access to their children. They may want (or say they want) more, they may feel they are messed around by their Exs over timings etc., but there aren't many that are completely denied access. Nevertheless the forums contain almost no threads about how to be a better father or even how to develop as individuals at all, but there are plenty on how to get one over on an Ex.

bigfatcath · 03/07/2011 07:56

Killedbill....... nice!!!!

I hope you aren't a mother of sons!!!!

HerBeX · 03/07/2011 08:21

You know what, this has made me incadescent: "why can't you talk to women like me with a little more kindness"?

You come into the feminist section, tell me I hate men and expect kindness? Really? Has it occurred to you, that insulting me will result in me insulting you back? Or are feminists supposed to lie down and take any shit thrown at them without responding in kind because if we don't meekly accept any insults any random wants to throw at us, we're not doing feminism right?

Let me be really clear: if you come and tell me I hate men just because you haven't bothered to read my posts properly, I will not be kind to you. I make no apologies for that, I do not owe anyone kindness who doesn't show it to me.

Will now read the rest of the posts.

HerBeX · 03/07/2011 08:37

I'm still not sure you're for real HowlingBitch (nice name Hmm) but just in case you are adn to give you the benefit of the doubt about being a 22 year old mother, the context of being accused of being man hating, angry, blah di blah di blah is that feminists have to put up with that shit all the time in RL and on the interweb whenever we put our heads above the parapet, by people who themselves are angry about having their cosy assumptions and opinions challenged and who take their anger out on us.

So if we sometimes act dismissive, or patronising, or angry ourselves, it's because we've heard it so often and every time it happens to us, we are supposed to meekly accept that our views are off the wall and therefore everyone else has the right to treat us like that. Well guess what, sometimes, just sometimes, we get pissed off with having to be the nice, reasonable smiley one while others permit themselves the luxury of being the sneery, patronising or flouncing one and we decide we'll do that role instead for a change and we don't play nicely anymore.

If you're for real, then I am genuinely sorry if you've felt attacked or dismissed at times, but my advice on how to avoid that, is to not accuse feminists as a group of being angry man-haters. That is a classic silencing tactic to ensure that women are too afraid to examine feminist ideas and it really doesn't go down well. Also I've realised this is the AIBU section - this place is far more aggressive and incendiary than the feminist section, you're likely to get even shorter shrift if you insult a whole group of people on here.

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