To ask your views on MRAs?

[HoldYourBunFire]

Ok (I have actually name changed for this!) please before I get my biscuits I would like to start by saying this thread is not intended to start any sort of bun fight. I am actually serious. There have been a few threads recently that have sparked my interest in this movement and the deeper I delve into it it's actually starting to look a lot less like a bunch of women bashing misogynists screaming "I hate feminism". There are actually quite a few genuine men out there trying to protest their rights particularly in regards to the family court system.

As the mother of a 3yo DS I am increasingly worried about what the attitude towards men is becoming? Quite a big generalization I know but you have to admit that there is quite alot of man hating going on out there (and in here). We all have Fathers, Brothers, Sons, Husbands etc..

I guess what I am trying to say is that in the face of Womens rights movments and feminism (which I truly thank God every day for as I know how hard my day to day life would be without them) have we forgotten Mens rights?

'your rejection of the idea that the society we live in still promotes certain gender roles over others'

Quote where I said this please.

May I just apologise. I'm so sorry about how ignorant I have been about all of this. I started this thread with the right intention honestly I did but do I realise how stupid I seem. I admit I am stupid when it comes to this as I read the posts here and I commend your passion. I did not aim this at feminists but after reading my posts I can completely agree that it will be offensive to you/us/ME.

I want you to know the reasons I really posted this (in such a silly way).

I grew up in a home in which my mum always told me there is no shame in being a housewife (SAHM* which I am and extremely proud to be!) and have your partners dinner ready for him every night (Which I do when I am not too tired after a busy day with a toddler and a crazy dog. It is not expected of me btw. That's not really the point is it?)

I remember sitting round a table with my mum and her friend everyday and listening to them bad mouth my dad and her husband constantly. It eventually went beyond that. I began witnessing horrible events. At one point in my life my Mum grabbed all of the knifes in the cutlery drawer and tried to stab my Dad. Me and my brother were holding them apart. I will never forget the way my Dads T shirt was ripped. Yet when her friends came round they bad mouthed my dad and called him dirt. (I was there when It happened. I was 14. The reason was because he called her a liar in front of her friend.)

My Mum is disabled. I don't want to go too much into that in case people know me or her but she had polio when she was young which effected her adult life. They both agreed my Dad should quit his job (years ago) to look after my mum and I think it has gotten worse since then.

He recently had really horrible convulsions and no one knows why it is happening. It could be epilepsy (which he is trying to get sorted).

Last week he had one. He told me on the phone what had happened and sounded so meek. When I went up he was just sitting there. He looked so scared. My Mum then told me he has stopped breathing during the night and he went rigid.

She (in her own words) told me she then started shouting at him and throwing his clothes around telling him "He had better get to a doctor", That "She can't take this kind of thing" She told him he had to leave HER home. As if she was proud of it. (I understand what fear she would of felt but as I have told her "He is scared too")

I guess I just took my anger out on AIBU in a stupid way that doesn't make any sense. I'm sorry. I realise my mum is not even slightly like most women and my previous posts don't even sound like me. Oh BTW I am NO WAY comparing my mum to a FEMINIST at all!

I'm actually finding all this really hard so again, I'm sorry. It was just a stupid outburst of crappy posts.

You seem really upset but I don't understand what you think you have done wrong. Personally, nothing I wrote had anything to do with your mother. Its just an internet thread, don't make it more important than it is xxx

Howling, honestly, don't worry about it! This is always a topic that will get people posting passionately, I don't think you were offensive.

Your family dynamic sounds extremely hard to live with, I'm sorry you've been through that. I will wave my little feminist flag and wonder aloud whether, if your parents had a more equal relationship in the first place, your mother wouldn't have been so resentful of your Dad, so territorial about the home, etc. - but it sounds like there's a bunch of stuff going on either way.

I do think that women who've had a very proscribed life due to gender expectations tend to be more bitter about men, actually. All the 'he's hopeless' gibes and suchlike. Whereas feminists tend to think more highly of men than that.

Oh Marysue I wasn't refaring directly to anything you have said or anyone else! Really (Except maybe HerBex who I was slightly mean too. Sorry.)

Tortoise Thanks.. I guess I was kind of silly even approching this subject without any kind of knowlage. I think I have been a bit angry recently and was looking for a fight but it's hard to fight when common sense is looking you in the face. I also see now that feminism is about equality for all people and I can proudly call myself a feminist for the first time ever (after seeing everything you really stand for and not just assuming).

I know my mum is sick. I know she resents my dad because of what he has to do sometimes (It can be the most personal things for her.) But it's so hard when he is sick like he is now to watch her fear hurt him. I know she is angry at the thought of loosing him and having us (me and my family) look after her is scarey but we need to look after my Dad now too and I think she finds that hard to deal with.

Howling don't beat yourself up about this. The things said on this thread ate the responsibility of those who posted them: not you. You have had/are continuing to have a traumatic experience. The situation sounds unpleasant in the extreme. If you want constructive advice on the situation you might try relationships. If not, ignore me. I hope your Dad recovers and you can help him find a way out of this.

Mary Sue. This will be my final comment on this thread. You said that "you don't buy into the patriatchy myth". I took this to mean you reject the idea that society is conditioned by culturally created gender roles and favours some over others. This after all is what feminists mean when they talk about the patriarchy. You are within your rights to have this opinion. I am also in mine to say that I don't want to continue discussing this with you.

Howling I'm really sorry to hear you've had to experience that. How horrifying and it must have been so frightening to witness as a child. I'm sure it has left a mark - you wouldn't be human if it hadn't.

Please don't beat yourself up over this thread. It's not a crime to be ill-informed as long as you don't pretend to be authority on the subject. I thought your OP was genuine rather than deliberately inflammatory. I didn't agree with your stance but you asked for different opinions in a way that showed you were prepared to be open-minded and that's got to be fine in anyone's book.

sunshineandbooks Wed 06-Jul-11 00:26:02

"People might be interested in this regarding Warshak, which again demonstrates that PAS has failed to live up to peer scrutiny and scientific rigour."

He gets a terrific kicking in that article, doesn't he? Thanks for posting it.
I think there is some validity in the theory, as a way of understanding certain behaviour patterns in custody disputes.
I'm always suspicious of those who silence their critics. I have to say that I think the DV connection was overplayed a bit in this article. In cases I have come across where one parent had poisoned the children against the other, DV wasn't an issue in all of them.
Then again, I'm only speaking from my own experience and, as you say, some proper research is needed.
Mind you at $40 000 a workshop, Warshak seems to be doing just fine without it.

As for FNF, I'm not a member myself but one long standing member recently informed me that it has been investigated by a Gov dept for alleged misuse of funds and that all the decent trustees have been forced out by an unhinged lunatic of a Chair who has apparently admtited to carrying an air rifle following taunts from neighbours. What is left sounds like a cynical money making exercise for so called "professional MK friends." They also have internet forums but anyone who has tried to tell the truth about what is going on or asked questions has been barred from them. Apparently, there are now more moderators (themselves staff, trustees and MK's) than forum users.
I know there are good people in it but many of them are thinking of breaking away in despair at the behaviour of those who have taken it over.

Howling please don't be sorry, no apology necessary, I was pretty mean to you too because I thought you were an MRA troll - there's been an influx of them recently and they're doing a great job of ensuring that feminists argue among themselves instead of uniting against the patriarchy. As sunshine said, no shame in not being informed about something and asking genuine questions and thank you for listening to and taking on board my rants about why we're sometimes mean to people who we think are here to stir rather than discuss.

Have you had a look at the stately homes threads? It sounds like your upbringing was pretty traumatic and you could do with some ongoing support and those threads are great for that.