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There's been outrage amongst many people claiming the BBC pay ethnic minorities more then white people

100 replies

cakeorwine · 10/10/2026 11:12

BBC report linked here

Pay gap report

And here's one of the tables that was used to justify the claim.

Telegraph report here. I've gifted it to you

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/bdb86271401b1980

So....what do you believe? Are the BBC paying ethnic minorities more?

Feel free to look at the links to make up your own mind.

I would be interested to know how confident you are in your belief and what do you think the main reason is for that level of confidence

The Telegraph thinks so

"The BBC pays white staff less on average than their ethnic minority colleagues in every pay band bar one, figures show.
Black, Asian, mixed and other ethnic minority employees received 13.2pc higher median pay than white workers in the corporation’s lowest pay band, and 5.3pc more in the highest pay band.
White employees’ median pay was higher – by 0.6pc – in just one out of seven pay scales. This is despite the BBC’s commitment to “fair, clear and competitive” pay."

I've also attached the top comments and a picture of The SImpsons for some reason......

The comments

"Imagine the outrage if it was the other way around 🙄"

"Yep, institutional racism is alive and well in the BBC!"

"This is racism pure and simple. I am appalled"

"Some animals are more equal than others"

"Of course it is. But like most things there are two tiers of legality in this country. There isnt a judge or tribunal anywhere that would convict in favour of white men."

"Two tier Britain is real. And it’s terrifying."

"Stop paying the Licence Fee.
Stop funding the enemy"

"I see it all the time. I love Escape To The Country but they always interview locals that are non British and it is obvious that they are making a point"

"So if you’re fat, trans, and black you’re on a winner"

"indeed all the white employees should take them to a tribunal ... where is their union when you actually need it?"

"The "Equality Act" is a misnomer. Being normal is not a protected characterstic."

There's been outrage amongst many people claiming the BBC pay ethnic minorities more then white people
There's been outrage amongst many people claiming the BBC pay ethnic minorities more then white people
There's been outrage amongst many people claiming the BBC pay ethnic minorities more then white people
There's been outrage amongst many people claiming the BBC pay ethnic minorities more then white people
OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
PinkFrogss · 10/10/2026 12:00

This makes me think of the gender pay gap in my department. We have an overall gender pay gap with men generally being disproportionately in more senior positions. However our grades are on a scale and you move up the scale each year. If you move to a higher graded role you start at the bottom of the scale for that grade. Women stay with our employer and in their roles longer (less job jumping and promotions) so are generally at a higher point on the scale than men.

So I wouldn’t be surprised if in my department women on each band are paid higher than the men in each band, and we have a gender pay gap favouring men overall in the department.

cakeorwine · 10/10/2026 16:31

I was just waiting for more people to reply

OP posts:
CorporalJohn · 10/10/2026 18:47

I'll want better evidence than a report in the Daily Telegraph before I believe this.

PinkFrogss · 10/10/2026 18:59

CorporalJohn · 10/10/2026 18:47

I'll want better evidence than a report in the Daily Telegraph before I believe this.

To be the fair telegraphs headline is accurate according to the BBC’s official stats (also linked by the OP) but leaves a lot out for reasons I’m sure we can all guess….

Openmouthinsertfood · 10/10/2026 19:36

cakeorwine · 10/10/2026 16:31

I was just waiting for more people to reply

I know I haven't personnaly replied becuase it's a highly devisive topic, and being on the 'wrong' side these days get's you shouted down, called racist, etc. Maybe others feel the same apprehension?

EmeraldRoulette · 10/10/2026 19:55

This kind of data in aggregate is worth nothing

It’s not the kind of thing I can say here because people get really annoyed

But it’s the same issue with the so-called gender pay gap

Show me a man and a woman being paid a different wage for doing exactly the same job and that is a problem. But that isn’t what the gender pay gap is.

The way this data has been collected is exactly the same, isn’t it?

TY78910 · 10/10/2026 20:14

There are so many factors that come in to play when it comes to pay gaps that can never be explained by a statistic like this.

However, even if I was taking this information in its most basic form - fair play. Said as a white woman.

EmeraldRoulette · 10/10/2026 20:16

TY78910 · 10/10/2026 20:14

There are so many factors that come in to play when it comes to pay gaps that can never be explained by a statistic like this.

However, even if I was taking this information in its most basic form - fair play. Said as a white woman.

Can you expand on that, please? I’m confused about what you mean.

WhitneySpears · 10/10/2026 20:20

Absolute joke.

EmeraldRoulette · 10/10/2026 20:20

WhitneySpears · 10/10/2026 20:20

Absolute joke.

What is? And what is it that you think is actually happening?

BreezyClouds · 10/10/2026 20:25

Visual media needs to hire ethnic minorities, it's important that programs are visually diverse and representative of the audience.

Id assume good people from minorities are in high demand but lower supply, and so possibly demand higher pay than white counterparts.

Or other reasons, just one that seemed logical.

Shedmistress · 10/10/2026 20:32

BreezyClouds · 10/10/2026 20:25

Visual media needs to hire ethnic minorities, it's important that programs are visually diverse and representative of the audience.

Id assume good people from minorities are in high demand but lower supply, and so possibly demand higher pay than white counterparts.

Or other reasons, just one that seemed logical.

What ARE the stats for the BBC presenters compared to the audience, in terms of ethnic background?

TY78910 · 10/10/2026 20:34

EmeraldRoulette · 10/10/2026 20:16

Can you expand on that, please? I’m confused about what you mean.

Which part?

Person A works in the same role as person B. Pay rises are awarded based on performance and person A was ok, nothing exceptional - received 3k, Person B has been amazing and got 1k more. Person A took a leave of absence for a year and was awarded the minimum pay rise the following year, person B continued to excel and got another 2k more plus a bonus. Person B happens to be black. On paper - white person A earns less than black person B.

EmeraldRoulette · 10/10/2026 20:36

@TY78910 I was wondering what you meant by saying “ even if you took the information at the most basic level” . Because frankly all this stuff is designed to give a different impression to what’s actually happening.

it sounds like you get it.

cakeorwine · 10/10/2026 20:48

Openmouthinsertfood · 10/10/2026 19:36

I know I haven't personnaly replied becuase it's a highly devisive topic, and being on the 'wrong' side these days get's you shouted down, called racist, etc. Maybe others feel the same apprehension?

It's maths.

It could be any group comparison.

Maths doesn't lie. But people can lie with maths

OP posts:
cakeorwine · 10/10/2026 20:50

WhitneySpears · 10/10/2026 20:20

Absolute joke.

Can I check that you believe that the BBC are paying ethnic minorities more?

If I'm correct in your view, what led you to that belief?
And an a scale of 1 to 10, how confident are you that's true.

Thanks for replying

OP posts:
cakeorwine · 10/10/2026 20:50

TY78910 · 10/10/2026 20:34

Which part?

Person A works in the same role as person B. Pay rises are awarded based on performance and person A was ok, nothing exceptional - received 3k, Person B has been amazing and got 1k more. Person A took a leave of absence for a year and was awarded the minimum pay rise the following year, person B continued to excel and got another 2k more plus a bonus. Person B happens to be black. On paper - white person A earns less than black person B.

It's not even that.
It's maths

OP posts:
cakeorwine · 10/10/2026 20:51

EmeraldRoulette · 10/10/2026 20:36

@TY78910 I was wondering what you meant by saying “ even if you took the information at the most basic level” . Because frankly all this stuff is designed to give a different impression to what’s actually happening.

it sounds like you get it.

I think she does.

I'm going to engage people who believe it's true in a positive manner to explore their thinking

OP posts:
PinkFrogss · 10/10/2026 21:00

I imagine there’s also a strong geographical influence as well - London is generally more diverse and staff working in London are often higher paid (plenty of companies have a variation of London weighting in their pay).

If the ethnic minority BBC employees are disproportionately in London then the overall pay for them will most likely include a disproportionate amount of London Weighting.

TY78910 · 10/10/2026 21:17

cakeorwine · 10/10/2026 20:51

I think she does.

I'm going to engage people who believe it's true in a positive manner to explore their thinking

What’s your opinion?

Ponderingwindow · 10/10/2026 21:20

It’s the kind of table raises eyebrows, but that doesn’t mean there is a policy on even bias of paying people more by race. So many other underlying factors can cause this correlation. Someone above mentioned geography which is definitely one of the first places I would start.

this is the kind of analysis I do for a living.

EmeraldRoulette · 10/10/2026 21:24

@Ponderingwindow “but that doesn’t mean there is a policy on even bias of paying people more by race”

unfortunately, I think a substantial proportion of people don’t realise that. That’s why I mentioned the gender pay gap. I genuinely believe a lot of people think it means something completely different than what it means.

To be fair, it is ridiculous that these things are expressed the way they are.

cakeorwine · 11/10/2026 01:09

TY78910 · 10/10/2026 21:17

What’s your opinion?

It's not an opinion.

Firstly some basic stats - most people hopefully know this but it's worth a reminder.

Mean pay iis the "average" that most people are familiar with. Add up the pay and divide by the number of people.

Small groups can skew results. Imagine a class of 5 pupils doing a maths test and little Joe does really badly. The mean is affected far more than if he had been in a class of 30.

Median pay is the one in the middle. Line everyone up in order of their pay and take the middle person.If there are 99 people, you would take the 50th person.
49 before, 49 after.

If you have 6 people, you would need the average of the 3rd and 4th person.

There are 2 tables.

Table 1 shows the mean and median pay gap across all different groups for 2024 and 2025

For ethnicity, the mean was 2.0% which means white employees are paid on average 2% more than ethnic minorities

The median was 0.7%. So the middle white person was paid 0.7% more than the middle ethnic minority employee

But then they decided to sub divide the groups by Band. They didn't do that for any other characteristic but they did for ethnicity. I am sure the person who compiled it had their reasons.

This is table 2.

In table 2, you can see a negative pay gap which means the mean is in favour of ethnic minorities and the median is as well.

You'll see that the median for Band A is -13.2% which means the middle ethnic minority employee is paid 13.2% more than the median white employee

It's similar for the other bands, except Band F, although the percentage differences are lower. The median ethnic senior leader earns 5.3% more.

They've also gone deeper into the ethnic groups.
Table 3

Asian employees earn 2.7% more than - either white employees or non Asian. It doesn't say.However black employees earn 8.5% less than white or non Black (sorry) employees.

As I said, the number of people matters when you are trying to compare groups using statistics. Small groups can be impacted by one person.

They haven't given us the numbers. What they have done is give us the percentage of ethnic minorities in each pay quartile. It's roughly 20%.

This means there could be 10 employees in each quartile and 2 of them would be from an ethnic minority. But the BBC has about 40,000 employees so we can assume about 20% are from an ethnic minority. Which is 8000 people.

What we have is called Simpson's Paradox.

When a group is combined, one group has a higher mean or median than the other group.

When you divide the group into categories, such as employee Band, the opposite is true.

So in this case, white employees earn more on average than ethnic minority ones.

But at each pay band, ethnic minorities earn more on average than white employees.

It's impossible to give an answer without the actual data and it needs to be presented in a more visual way.

Interestingly, the pay gap for LGBT Senior Leaders is 8.8% in favour of the LGBT employees. I bet that's one highly paid person.

If you want to reduce the pay gap, it's very simple but harsh.

You need fewer lower paid workers in the disadvantaged group and more lower paid workers in the advantaged group.

So you sack all the lower paid ethnic minority employees thus shifting the mean and median higher.

You employ more higher paid ethnic minority workers.

You replace them with lower paid white workers and you sack higher paid white workers thus lowering their mean and median.

As long as you pay people the same for the band and job they are doing, that's guaranteed to reduce the pay gap.

Of course, the media looked at the report, They ignored the headline figure about white employees earning more and reported the more detailed figure by Career Band.

Simpsons Paradox - it can affect loads of things iespecially when comparing outcomes

eg 1 Dr A could have a better outcome for operations than Dr B
But if it was a high risk operation, Dr B is better than Dr A

There's been outrage amongst many people claiming the BBC pay ethnic minorities more then white people
There's been outrage amongst many people claiming the BBC pay ethnic minorities more then white people
There's been outrage amongst many people claiming the BBC pay ethnic minorities more then white people
There's been outrage amongst many people claiming the BBC pay ethnic minorities more then white people
There's been outrage amongst many people claiming the BBC pay ethnic minorities more then white people
OP posts:
Ilovelurchers · 11/10/2026 01:34

Are you asking us if we believe that black employees are paid more than white employees for doing the exact same job?

No, I do not believe that.

Why do you want to know what we think, out of interest?

Ilovelurchers · 11/10/2026 01:36

cakeorwine · 10/10/2026 20:51

I think she does.

I'm going to engage people who believe it's true in a positive manner to explore their thinking

I don't understand your sentence that begins "I'm going to engage ....". Can you explain your intentions in other words, please?