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Has everyone seen the photo of the Archbishop of Canterbury presenting an award to Hafiz Muhammad Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi? If not, please have a look

638 replies

TheStateWeAreIn · 18/09/2026 12:28

I don’t know what to say really, I just want as many women on MN as possible to see this picture.

Particularly Hafiz Muhammad Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi‘s wife.

There’s so much going on there.

(I know there’s another thread about the award and it’s subsequent withdrawal, I just wanted to start a thread to focus on the photo)

Has everyone seen the photo of the Archbishop of Canterbury presenting an award to Hafiz Muhammad Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi? If not, please have a look
OP posts:
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10
LocalHobo · 18/09/2026 22:01

Emily Wilding Davison,Bessie Coleman, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Benazir Bhutto, Sirimavo Bandaranaike and so many more that I don't know the name of though I'm sure I should...They strived for women to be seen as equal to men, they broke barriers and this woman,'Dame' Sarah , was so captured by woke ideology she ignored the blatant example of gender inequality.
The suffragettes didn’t fight for our rights to have us blindly walking into such a shit show
We know that that Ashrafi does not see women as his equal, he needed his wife to ensure the ABofC did not touch him. This cannot be seen as anything other than a grotesque subjugation of women.

EasternStandard · 18/09/2026 22:05

NancyThompson · 18/09/2026 21:59

And tough luck for any kid who needs to lip read...

Plus it doesn’t need to be normalised for little girls especially.

WinterGold · 18/09/2026 22:09

I’d be very interested to know if this niqab wearing TA would be allowed by her husband to work in an environment where there are adult males.
Statistically, most primary schools are very female staff heavy and apart from parents and carers, insulated from outside contact.

In an ordinary office environment or service industry, there is usually more male staff and certainly more interaction with male members of the public.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

IsThePopeCatholic · 18/09/2026 22:14

I’m furious that Sarah mulally opposes assisted dying. As for the other 2, I don’t know anything about them.

Therattt · 18/09/2026 22:27

ragdollout · 18/09/2026 21:56

@EasternStandardThank God my son, and the other SEN children in that class, don’t think that way. They’re completely comfortable with someone wearing a face covering. Perhaps they don’t judge people based on their clothing.
And trust me, she is absolutely able to communicate with non-verbal children while wearing a niqab. Communication isn’t only about seeing someone’s whole face — there are many other ways people connect and understand each other.

No. I think thank god most schools aren't like yours. Most schools enforce the teacher to show their face in the uk. Are you in a State School? And bollocks about communication not being able to see their face. Over 90% OF COMMINICATION IS NON VERBAL.

5MinuteArgument · 18/09/2026 22:29

TheGander · 18/09/2026 21:58

The niqab is basically saying 1) men can only look at women in a sexual way 2) it’s not their fault, it’s the way they are made and 3) the solution is to hide women away. That is why that garment is unacceptable to me, most certainly in a European context. If I was faced with a doctor ( or anyone else in a professional capacity) in a niqab I would refuse the consultation. I grew up in a Muslim country, I saw the misogyny and the everyday sexual harassment and violence and I am not at all keen for any of that ideology to be imported here.

I agree with this. The more this becomes normalised the more we'll see of it. Especially as other European countries are starting to wake up and take action.

Many years ago I used to go on pro-Palestine demos. One year I noticed there were lots of young Muslim women wearing niqabs. That was the last pro-Pal demo I went on. I realised I was there to protest for peace and justice. They were there to show their disdain and opposition to the west.

No thank you.

Fedupoffeelingthisway111 · 18/09/2026 22:34

TheStateWeAreIn · 18/09/2026 13:17

The image is so shocking. And women coming out with all the “it’s her choice” lines to justify it when I very much doubt that they said the same when they saw the pictures from the Taliban is equally shocking.

It just shows how easily some people can be influenced in the name of “tolerance”.

What about hijab??? What do you think of hijab?

Fedupoffeelingthisway111 · 18/09/2026 22:36

Shudacudawuda · 18/09/2026 13:22

Being barely able to see or breathe properly shouldn't be necessary to stop men leering. If it is then I would suggest the men are the problem and perhaps tackling that might be better than having women encasing themselves in fabric.
It is possible to dress modestly without covering your airways. And some men will still leer.
Don't you see how ridiculous it is to put the solution on women? It doesn't solve anything, it in fact makes it worse.

The muslim holy book actually doesnt even say cover your face.... hijab I believe is mandatory, the full face one burkha or niqab is optional, im sure.

Fedupoffeelingthisway111 · 18/09/2026 22:41

Messedupmyusernameagain · 18/09/2026 13:29

The opposite argument to that is what they and their husbands are thinking about women who walk around in T shirts and a skirt or showing their faces and hair. That they are pieces of meat to be leered at? That they aren't dressed ' modestly' enough so they are fair game?

Im pretty sure the quran says to cover yourself respectfully not because men are lusting over you/sex mad/perverts but to avoid the male gaze. And also men are told to humble themselves by looking down.

I asked a muslim lady why she wears (before I read myself) she said because why should any other man enjoy my hair when my hair and figure should be for me, my husband and female pals to see. Fair enough. Thats her choice, her life. Her wearing headscarf doesn't make me have a bad life or a bad day

5MinuteArgument · 18/09/2026 22:44

Fedupoffeelingthisway111 · 18/09/2026 22:34

What about hijab??? What do you think of hijab?

Hijab is OK. It's basically a headscarf which doesn't obscure the face.

It's not OK for children though. If the idea behind it is to prevent men from getting over-exited at the sight of a woman's hair, translating that to hijab for children, for me is a total no-no. Where I live, I see little girls wearing hijab. It's crazy.

Fedupoffeelingthisway111 · 18/09/2026 22:45

Vintlet · 18/09/2026 14:06

I always point out on these threads that dressing in a burkha or niqab is NOT Islamic. One of the intentions of early Islam was to liberate women. At a time of truly terrible oppression of women, Islam allowed women to work, to be educated and to refuse a potential marriage partner. In The Qur’an women’s and men were asked to dress modestly. That’s all. However Islamic law requires that all Muslims are Khalifah ( caretakers ) of the planet. The number of Muslim women who use bikes is very low. Many women conveniently forget about saving the planet in favour of performative Islam. A poster on here explained that her husband found it erotic to insist his wife covered up and that only he could see her hair and face etc. That is NOT true Islam.
I am reading the BBC news story about Sara Sharif at the moment which shows how her father and step mother made her wear a hijab to cover bruising and the social workers did not check because it might look disrespectful to Islam. That is totally against the spirit and law of Islam.
I wonder if the posters on here defending the wearing of niqab, burkas and indeed the hijab, square their consciences with what happened to Sara and indeed no doubt, lots of women and girls. It is not Islamic.
Albania is a Muslim country yet virtually no women there cover up. Covering women up is cultural not Islamic.

Great comments...people assume a lot without really knowing.
Muslim women aren't allowed to talk was written up above there as well, really foolish statement.

Pretty sure there are rules as well for how muslim men dress, no gold, no silk and no shorts above the knees

Lemonraider · 18/09/2026 22:48

ragdollout · 18/09/2026 21:56

@EasternStandardThank God my son, and the other SEN children in that class, don’t think that way. They’re completely comfortable with someone wearing a face covering. Perhaps they don’t judge people based on their clothing.
And trust me, she is absolutely able to communicate with non-verbal children while wearing a niqab. Communication isn’t only about seeing someone’s whole face — there are many other ways people connect and understand each other.

It's not clothing though is it. They wear clothes underneath this coverall.

TiredShadows · 18/09/2026 22:52

That photo does give a lot of food for thought.

Don’t bring Islam onto something which is a cultural practice

All religious practices are cultural practices. Religion does not exist in a vacuum outside of the cultures it is practiced in.

The worst of cultural practices of any culture only gain the support they do through the power of institutions.

Saying don't bring the relevant religious institution in is to say that we should not hold the institutions of power within that religion accountable for how it supports those practices. This practice of being fully covered would not be the 'holy' practice to be taken to this level as others have discussed if it was not vocally supported by powers within the religious institution. Powers like the man being awarded. Powers I would argue likely include his wife, at least in how she influences other women and girls within the communities she's in. Many have discussed her lacking independent thought, but IME, wives like this who are close to male power do wield their own against other women and children.

This is true of any faith or any other institution, the powers within them are what enables all of this, and we shouldn't be wary of calling that out just because a practice isn't universally accepted by all in that group.

I have always wondered what it would be like to wear something like a niqab or burqa and if it would make me feel less like a piece of meat on display for the patriarchy to leer at. I think it is something to consider most certainly.

For others who may be curious about what it's like - I was nearly fully covered for about decade. My experience is that over time I became less able to do anything while not fully covered. It started with being fully covered only when going out, then it was not going downstairs uncovered, then not being comfortable leaving the bedroom until I'd covered, and it ended when there was a knock at the door one day and I felt too naked and exposed to answer even though I was fully dressed from the neck down, even though I knew who was at the door would not care, I froze in panic and melted in what the fuck is happening to me. That was my breaking point. It took weeks into month to slowly relearn how to be comfortable going out with my head uncovered or wearing more typical clothes that don't hide everything. I'm still more on the covered side when out of the home, but it's not out of fear or some ideal anymore.

I have few regrets in life, but one of them was that I hadn't gotten to that point sooner, that a few of my relatives never got to see me come out of that. The first time I went to an event with my in-laws uncovered was my FIL's funeral - I think he would have been really pleased and proud I'd gotten that far after so long (I feel I should say here that the covering comes from part of my side of the family, my husband and his family accepted it, but never really liked it).

Oh, and I got plenty of shitty remarks from men while fully covered. I think it's part of the loop that reinforces it - it treats the issue is that is we just cover this much that problem will be solved, but it doesn't and we're trained by those powers to blame ourselves for that, so we cover further, we remove ourselves further from potential risks and threats, it doesn't work, and we repeat, thinking if we're just good enough, if we do things just right, it won't happen to us. Even now, I have the impulse to try to explain why I get less shitty comments or those looks and gestures now, but the blunt answer is that those remarks and the leering are not about the person being leered at or being remarked on, it's the person choosing to do so. I'll go months without anything, then it happens again and all that old discomfort comes back - I've just had to face that discomfort and learn that hiding isn't going to solve anything.

TheStateWeAreIn · 18/09/2026 23:04

ragdollout · 18/09/2026 21:26

@TheStateWeAreIn If you don’t want to communicate voluntarily with someone who is wearing a niqab, that’s your personal choice. But does that mean you think the niqab should be banned simply because you feel you can’t communicate with someone wearing it?
For example, imagine you’re in a situation where your doctor is wearing a niqab, and they’re the only doctor available. Would you really refuse to communicate with them, or would you find another way to communicate effectively?
There is almost always a way to communicate when it’s necessary. A lack of face-to-face communication shouldn’t automatically mean that someone’s choice of clothing needs to be banned.

I don’t want to be in a situation where I have to see a doctor in a niqab. I think if someone is going to choose to effectively disable some of their patients by preventing them from “hearing“, which I do with my eyes as much as my ears, them maybe they should stick to patients in niqab, and doctors who will show their faces can work with everyone else.

What about children? Would you expect a sick and distressed child to be able to speak to a dr in niqab?

Obviously in an emergency if the doctor was wearing a niqab I’d have to make the best of a bad job. I would assume though that I wasn’t going to get the best treatment because my communication, an essential part of any doctor/patient interaction, would be severely hampered.

Yes I’d like to see it banned. It is dehumanising, isolating, unnecessary. If it’s so important to people they can move to a country where it’s allowed. I don’t think all the accommodations always needs to go one way, which is what is happening.

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TheStateWeAreIn · 18/09/2026 23:11

WinterGold · 18/09/2026 21:30

I’m actually very glad you mentioned sunglasses.

I can put my hand in my heart and say, without exception, if I’m being introduced to someone or holding a conversation with somebody for the first time, even ordering drinks from an outside bar, I always remove my sunglasses. I’ve always felt it’s a form of politeness and acknowledgement to make eye contact and to also send the message that I am interested in the person enough to give them my full attention. I also very much appreciate the courtesy of others doing the same to me.

I’ve never been told to do this, it’s just something I believe is right because we are visual beings and read such a huge amount from each others subtle facial language.

Absolutely. Being able to see someone’s eyes and the area around them is a huge part of human interaction.

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TheStateWeAreIn · 18/09/2026 23:17

BananaPeels · 18/09/2026 21:31

Surely if someone is religious enough to wear one, they couldn’t be a doctor. Doctors have to touch their patients - they wouldn’t be able to choose the sex of their patients so would have to handle both men and women potentially intimately. How would that work?

I don’t know. The whole thing seems absurd to me. I’m supposed to strip off my clothes and let someone examine my nethers who won’t let me see their face? No, if it’s so important to someone they need to find consenting patients, not impose themselves on people who have no choice but to deal with an effectively faceless doctor.

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TheStateWeAreIn · 18/09/2026 23:18

Therattt · 18/09/2026 21:33

Face coverings are banned in my NHS Trust ( and I hope in all others). They are allowed to wear them on breaks but not when patient facing.

That is excellent. Heartening to hear. And have all the niqab wearers resigned or do they somehow cope with removing their niqabs?

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TheStateWeAreIn · 18/09/2026 23:21

ragdollout · 18/09/2026 21:40

The doctor was an example situation to show that if you want to you will find a way to communicate . If the NHS has a ban, then there we go. They understand and can follow rules. Just like you and me

Yes, but the issue is do we fall over ourselves to accommodate, or do we put bans in place even at the terrible risk of being called intolerant or racist?

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CandidLurker · 18/09/2026 23:23

5MinuteArgument · 18/09/2026 22:44

Hijab is OK. It's basically a headscarf which doesn't obscure the face.

It's not OK for children though. If the idea behind it is to prevent men from getting over-exited at the sight of a woman's hair, translating that to hijab for children, for me is a total no-no. Where I live, I see little girls wearing hijab. It's crazy.

And that’s the crazy thing. In Muslim countries you don’t see little girls in the hijab. We accept things here and don’t challenge things that wouldn’t be normal even in a Muslim country.

WouldYouLikeAnyToast · 18/09/2026 23:24

PistachioTiramisu · 18/09/2026 13:58

The terrible thing is that when i first looked at the picture, I didn't even SEE his wife. Poor woman.

Same 😓

TheStateWeAreIn · 18/09/2026 23:27

ErrolTheDragon · 18/09/2026 21:45

An aside re sunglasses - they serve a useful purpose - avoiding UV damage, and for some eye conditions people really do need to wear them outside.

Of course. I wear them. But I take them off if I’m speaking to someone, moving into the shade, shading my eyes with my hands, whatever, whilst having a conversation.

And if someone said to me “I can’t take these off for medical reasons” of course I would just manage, the same as if I’m talking with someone who is blind or doesn’t make eye contact at all.

The point is that communication is a two way process and both parties should try to make it easy and pleasant. If someone is not bothered to do this (rather than unable to) then I’m not going to be bothered about talking to them.

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TheStateWeAreIn · 18/09/2026 23:33

ragdollout · 18/09/2026 21:56

@EasternStandardThank God my son, and the other SEN children in that class, don’t think that way. They’re completely comfortable with someone wearing a face covering. Perhaps they don’t judge people based on their clothing.
And trust me, she is absolutely able to communicate with non-verbal children while wearing a niqab. Communication isn’t only about seeing someone’s whole face — there are many other ways people connect and understand each other.

I don’t think schools should be making it harder for children with SEN to communicate.

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dustabsorber · 18/09/2026 23:40

Time for Disestablishmentarianism and the establishment of a secular UK.

OtterlyAstounding · 19/09/2026 02:35

I always wonder if women in places where the hijab is mandatory/expected, could just fulfil the aspect of not showing their hair by shaving their head instead. No hair? No need to cover.

I imagine not though.

Bringemout · 19/09/2026 07:11

ragdollout · 18/09/2026 21:56

@EasternStandardThank God my son, and the other SEN children in that class, don’t think that way. They’re completely comfortable with someone wearing a face covering. Perhaps they don’t judge people based on their clothing.
And trust me, she is absolutely able to communicate with non-verbal children while wearing a niqab. Communication isn’t only about seeing someone’s whole face — there are many other ways people connect and understand each other.

I think you can have respect and affection for the person wearing the niqab whilst also recognising that it’s female oppression. They are covered specifically because it’s an extreme form of modesty culture which harms women. Convincing women they are responsible for male behaviour has been the norm in all our cultures over time. Despite western women pushing back it still exists here. “Crime of passion” “well she was practically naked”. Lets shed it and take everyone with us.

A lot of the time I feel as a minority woman that western women will ignore the realities of ethnic minority women’s lives because “racism” is worse than misogyny. Feminism becomes something for women who want equal pay but not for girls experiencing extreme forms of control. I understand it’s difficult because it’s hard to see the inside of it, is she wearing it because she wants to? Is that family really oppressing their daughters or is it just some cultural thing? Am I being a bigot in some way by pointing this out?

I remember something from when a couple of states in Indian banned polygamy for all residents regardless of religion (it’s still legal for muslim in much of India) a minister made the point that any female citizen of India should have the same rights regardless of her religion, I thought that seemed to me right and proper.

Take away the option of the niqab and it will die a death.

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