Having to pay for work team building day

[Notanawayday]

Name changed for this.

I work part time for the NHS band 3 with colleagues who are band 6/7 so obviously better paid.

Every year we have no choice but to go on an afternoons team building day. Patient diaries are blocked out so my colleagues can go and admin have to attend too.

Last year it was bowling, year before pottery painting so not too expensive.

We have raised before about the trust we work for paying for us to go as it is on work time and we have no choice but to attend. Last year a couple of colleagues couldn’t afford the bowling had to sit there and watch.

There is no way our trust will pay for this forced team building day so there is no point even raising it again.

I was on annual leave last week when it was decided by our clinicians team lead that we will all be getting the train then a tube to Canary Wharf where we will be going to some sort of quiz event involving completing puzzles. Entry fee is £25 and then have to pay for food and drinks and of course train and fare tube which we can’t claim back. Whole cost will be around£60 and we will be there longer than our work finish time.

Im so fed up. I don’t want to spend money to attend a work team building day. A lot of the clinicians I work with are looking forward to it because it means half a day of not having to see patients and of course they earn way more than us lowly admin.

I think I will have to say I can’t afford to attend and will stay at work and actually do my job. I know already how it will pan out, constantly being pressurised to attend, being told I will have a good time and how I have to go to be part of the team etc etc

I’ve worked in further education and the civil service and never had to pay to attend a work team building day and yet the NHS managers think this is ok?!!!

You keep saying you have no choice, are expected to etc but I’m confused as to why you think they can force you to pay for leaving meals / Christmas meals and activities.

Take a firm line and just say “no, I will not be contributing towards XYZ”. No one can make you transfer money against your will and if they have a problem with it then that’s tough shit.

I'm have more rage if I paid tax, to know a day of NHS work is being wasted on this nonsense.

Just have a good working environment.

I worked in an NHS dept with social activities we were expected to attend and constant collections for birthday funds, leaving parties, lottery tickets, Christmas parties, theme nights, team building days etc which I had zero interest in attending due to having young children. I stopped attending the events that fell outwith work hours and stopped contributing to a lot of collections and felt like an absolute outsider, lots of comments about it. I got another job which had such a nice team and more professional boundaries. Also zero expectation of socialising or collections. It just wasnt a good fit for me, they all liked the "our team is like family" thing, I definitely didnt. They didnt change and are unlikely to, so the best thing to do was go elsewhere and im much happier!

of course there is choice if you are told to transfer money, you say no. I am not sure how anyone can make you pay for leaving gifts and lunches. Christmas meals were otional and we used to either do it on site and everyone brought something or we'd go somewhere like a local pub where we all chose our own so there was no problem with people's budgets. Does having your diary space blocked out mean that you can't stay on the premises and work? If you are told that sending money or going to a lunch and paying for it is compulsory, I'd be at HR and checking policy before you could say "knife"

A company away day focused on team building and problem-solving is generally tax-deductible as a legitimate business expense or staff entertainment cost, provided it is open to all staff and meets HMRC guidelines.

You’ve been given sound advice on here. You CAN (and should) refuse ’forced fun’ that costs you time/money/both. My DH was told that his manger strongly recommended that his team participated in some ‘fun’ the other day. He has a workload/calls booked with victims: what is more important? They can’t force you to go. Tell them you’re not attending and will wfh/work elsewhere. I wouldn’t put money into leaving dos/lunches either. How do they force you?

I know it feels like you have no choice, but legally, they cannot force you to pay for any of these things. I'd start pleading poverty "no, I cannot afford to attend". Do not offer apologies, just stick to the "I cannot afford to attend". They literally cannot force you.

This. This is exactly the right approach. If the culture of the team isn’t for you then leave, but don’t force everyone to change just for you.

otherwise it’s a race to the bottom with no-one allowed to do anything just because one individual doesn’t want to.

well done for making the move.

Eh? Admin workers can join a union.

unison.org.uk/about/health-care

Working out your daily net rate is a useful exercise. At Band 2 mine is around £100 per day, so £60 is a high proportion of that.
Honestly just say no, it’s disgusting and possibly discriminatory that managers are organising things at this budget with low paid staff expected to pay.

Im sure ACAS would have some advice too.

I uses to work in the NHS and I never once heard of anybody paying for a team building afternoon or day - and we had plenty. Ours tended to be at other venues owned by the Trust, or a local authority venue, somewhere very cheap, and we did work related activities, working through real like team issues, challenges etc... It was never just a jolly - and nobody would ever have been expected to pay for your lunch, and thats saying something, because you didn't even get tea and coffee usually where I worked. The unions would have had something to say about that too, isn't any of your team in a union? Say you can't afford it, cost of living, struggling to make ends meet, surely people won't apply pressure if that's your reason?

It’s not democratic. It was decided by the clinician team lead. It can’t possibly be fair that someone on £20k a year has to pay for activities unrelated to work because someone on £80k a year is coercing them into it. That’s the opposite of a democracy- it’s a dictatorship. It’s even worse when people who can’t afford an activity feel obliged to sit and watch other people do it. How on earth can that be described as effective team building when it actively excludes (probably the lowest paid) members of the team? OP, do any of these activities actually improve the performance of the team or is it just an excuse for the ‘competitive’ clinicians to show off?

I would get your union involved immediately. I have never heard of anything so ridiculous!

Lots of NHS admin staff are in unions, arguably, it's more needed for lower paid staff. The main ones where I worked were Unison, Unite and GMB was popular for a lot of the facilities staff. Clinicians have their own, like the BMA or the nursing ones. Subs are dependent on pay, so lower for lower paid staff. Sounds like you could do with joining one.

Wait until you're post-menopausal, approaching retirement and no longer give any fucks- that's the point when you put your foot down and don't tolerate this nonsense, and people spending your money for you whether you can afford it or not.

It's not Fairgame is it? Been there, wouldn't go again.

The annual cost for a union is likely to be more than the £60 that OP doesn’t have to spend ! Plus what are they going to do except tell her she isn’t obliged to go. I am not saying it’s not worth being a union member for other reasons, but in this case I think just keep saying No, what’s the worst they can do.

Just say I'm happy to be in work and not happy to pay for a work based activity

Now that is not true. I have been in, and managed, teams who arranged out of hours social events and meet ups among themselves and collections were made for leaving and other occasions. Some people always attended/donated, some attended/donated sometimes and not others, some, for their own reasons, did neither. The keyword here is OPTIONAL. There are two issues here, one is staff being forced by managers to attend and pay for activities. Without any doubt that is wrong. I'd say that team members pressuring other team members to go to activities or to donate to collections is also wrong. At worst its harassment/bullying. I don't think giving people choice is a race to the bottom, why is it such a problem for one or more team members not to "join in"?

oh trust me there is zero need to wait!! its like the Red Hat poem
"But maybe I ought to practise a little now?
So people who know me are not too shocked and surprised
When suddenly I am old, and start to wear purple."

It’s a democracy as it seems most people (the clinicians) want to do it and they outnumber the admin. That’s how a democracy works…. I’m assuming you realise that in a democracy not everyone agrees….?

just when you think you have seen all the silliness imaginable someone posts something sillier. You think its ok for someone to tell you you ahve to spend money on a compulsory work time activity and that's ok because "democracy"????

but its not up to the clinicians (or any other group) to decide what is compulsory to do during worktime unless its work related (not poxy team building) and work funded.

Say no.

One trust I worked worked like yours and really they can't force you to pay.