Thread 18 Starmer: All sides of the House agree apart from the Trump bootlickers

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5264338-thread-17-starmer-treading-softly?page=40&reply=142243865

Mango Mussolini's ts post in this tweet

https://bsky.app/profile/alexmassie.bsky.social/post/3ljazw23qi226

Zelensky] disrespected the United States of America in its cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he is ready for Peace.”

Absolutely.

Yes

When they said they were reducing aid to increase defence spending I did wonder if trump said something that spooked Starmer into deciding that he had to increase defence, after today I'm more convinced that that is what happened

I just want to scream.

You and me both. My wine consumption has begun and will be unusually bigly tonight.

I wonder if any former ministers are thinking maybe they were a bit previous in resigning.

On my 3rd glass already.

I am about to pour a bigly glass too.

🫂

Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦

For an American president to choose to do that in front of cameras - utterly appalling.

And not to be forgotten - they'll dish this out to everyone but Putin.

Makes me think wistfully of Bush (Snr and Jnr!) and Reagan -

"We in America have learned bitter lessons from two World Wars: It is better to be here ready to protect the peace, than to take blind shelter across the sea, rushing to respond only after freedom is lost. We’ve learned that isolationism never was and never will be an acceptable response to tyrannical governments with an expansionist intent."
(Reagan speech to Pointe Du Hoc - worth reading in full if you are that way inclined)

For the avoidance of doubt I dont think Trump/Vance will be rushing to respond.

Wine is unkind to me.

It will be vodka (not Russian) as usual when DS2 has gone to bed. For now it's louder than usual music while I make everyone's dinner.

Bloody Hell fire.

I'm in Melbourne just up for my morning cuppa and The Archers.

Now this. Disgusting behaviour by the playground bullies.

Senior Russian Official tells associated press;

"Historic"

But Ukraine have upmost nuclear weapons because a charter was signed that they'd get protection. (Can't remember what it's called but was back in 90's when I was a teen iirc?)

Trump may not hold all the cards he thinks he does.

In fact the more irate he feels the more he's showing the world just who he is.

There's a chance the world will come together and none of them will need the US.

We are in dangerous times. I don't think zelensky refusing to suck up to Trump will be the direct reason for any escalation.

I feel he's going to ignore that obligation @itsgettingweird

Trump does not want arguments with Russia. Today a new Russian ambassador to the US was appointed, while Zelenskyy was slung out on his ear.

Britain, France and Germany look very weak without US backing. Which is not yet explicit. But look at how well Putin has done with what he's had in the last six months. Trump is a gift. Thin skinned, greedy and isolationist.

From another thread

The United States signed the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances with Ukraine on December 5, 1994. In return for protection, Ukraine gave up the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal in world.

That was the charter thing I remembered.

How enforable it is though?

Not at all enforceable when Trump doesn’t give a stuff for law.

Not very, I guess? Trump can just say fuck off.

Morally the US owe Ukraine. Utterly. But legally, international law is based on reciprocity. You don't breach it because I can if you do.

There is no enforcement mechanism. Russia breached the Budapest memorandum as soon as they attacked.

The US is obliged to provide assistance. That term is very vague in terms of international law. Trump can claim he is. The memo also says no economic coercion. Signing a minerals agreement under duress would seem to be an example.

Short answer, memo has been torn up by Russia and US. Britain is still honouring it.

Ed Davey

This is thuggery from Trump and Vance, plain and simple. They are bullying the brave true patriot Zelensky into accepting a deal which effectively hands victory to Russia. Unless the UK and Europe step up, we are facing a betrayal of Ukraine.

Statements from Jenrick, Patel and Badenoch below

bsky.app/profile/alexpartridge87.bsky.social/post/3ljb3qggyuc27

And Russia
https://bsky.app/profile/eliothiggins.bsky.social/post/3ljb5vjomi22h

Jenrick said he'd vote for Trump. Presumably he'd want to revisit that now.

No word from Farage? Johnson?

Are they going to claim we weren't supposed to take Trump/vance literally? It was banter.

Jesus. Words fail me. 🤯