Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 45

981 replies

MagicFox · 26/09/2023 20:14

Thanks to all: contributors, lurkers and those in-between

**
Agreed thread guidance:

A. The agreed purpose of the thread is for the sharing of information and commentary on current events

B. If you post a link please tell us where it leads/give a precis of the content

C. Discussion and debate is welcome, but please keep it respectful

OP posts:
Thread gallery
398
Igotjelly · 22/11/2023 06:31

Why do they always start out reasonable!

backtowinter · 22/11/2023 08:12

Igotjelly · 22/11/2023 06:31

Why do they always start out reasonable!

I name change a lot but I always notice new names. When they appear on other threads with the same rhetoric it's time to get the debut card out

Igotjelly · 22/11/2023 09:27

Lots of anti-western/Israeli and pro-Hamas rhetoric on the Gaza threads from them too. Definitely getting the old 💵 out.

Greenshake · 22/11/2023 10:53

Just had a message from Ducks - she is under the weather and will be back when she is feeling better. Sending lots of love to you Ducks ❤️

PerkingFaintly · 22/11/2023 11:04

Brew for you, Ducks. Get well soon.

blueshoes · 22/11/2023 11:18

@DancesWithDucks hope you feel better soon. Leave ISW and Kyiv Ind to me.

Natsku · 22/11/2023 11:30

Get well soon @DancesWithDucks

Positivethought · 22/11/2023 11:35

@DancesWithDucks hope you’re soon feeling better 💐

blueshoes · 22/11/2023 12:10

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-november-21-2023

Key Takeaways:

  • Ukrainian and Russian forces continue to conduct offensive operations in eastern and southern Ukraine despite rainy and snowy weather conditions.
  • The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) and Russian officials are struggling to subdue Russian hysteria around Ukrainian operations in the east (left) bank of Kherson Oblast.
  • Russian forces conducted a series of missile and drone strikes overnight on November 20-21 and on November 21 targeting port and civilian infrastructure, including a hospital in Donetsk Oblast.
  • US National Security Council Spokesperson John Kirby reported on November 21 that the Wagner Group is preparing to provide an air defense system to either Iranian-backed Lebanese Hezbollah or Iran.
  • Imprisoned ardent nationalist and former Russian officer Igor Girkin’s presidential campaign announcement has generated some discourse in the Russian information space, but most Russian milbloggers refrained from discussing Girkin’s campaign likely due to self-censorship.
  • Washington, D.C.-based analytics company Gallup found that Russian society’s confidence in the Russian military has marginally decreased in 2023.
  • German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius announced a new military aid package to Ukraine during a visit to Kyiv on November 21.
  • The Armenian Ministry of Defense (MoD) denied Russian allegations that Armenia is planning to supply Ukraine with weapons.
  • Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev accused the West of destabilizing the South Caucasus region by supplying weapons to Armenia.
  • A former Russian Investigative Committee departmental head who was serving sentences for accepting bribes from the Russian mafia died in prison on the night of November 20-21, allegedly by suicide.
  • Russian forces conducted offensive operations along the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna line, near Bakhmut, near Avdiivka, west and southwest of Donetsk City, in the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border area, and in western Zaporizhia Oblast on November 21 and advanced in some areas.
  • Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu addressed the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) Collegium on November 21 and announced that the Russian MoD is increasing its military training efforts across Russia.
  • US Department of State Spokesperson Matthew Miller commented on November 20 about a report that found that Russian officials in collaboration with Belarusian officials transported more than 2,400 Ukrainian children between ages six and 17 to Belarus.
**
Ukraine Invasion: Part 45
BringBackCoffeeCreams · 22/11/2023 12:22

Ukraine is fighting against psychopaths who invaded their land, raped and murdered their women and children and have the ultimate aim of wiping Ukraine and the Ukrainian people off the map. Israel are fighting against psychopaths who invaded their land, raped and murdered their women and children and have the ultimate aim of wiping Israel and the jewish people off the map.

If you lack the cognitive ability to comprehend this then pop off back to your echo chamber that is the ME threads. This one is about Ukraine.

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 22/11/2023 12:36

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 20/11/2023 13:27

It seems like there's no lengths to which russia won't stoop to destabilise the West 🤷‍♀️

Russia is believed to be behind the Koran burnings in Sweden. Which has led to a raising of our risk level.

TheABC · 22/11/2023 12:39

I'm anti-terrorist. As far as I am concerned, Russia is state-sponsored terrorism, masquerading as a country. Ditto Hamas (who are the elected government of Gaza).

I'm critical of Israel's methods and right-wing rhetoric but no country in its right mind would quietly sit on its hands after a massacre like October 7th. As it stands, no one; not the Arab states, PLO, Israel or America, wants responsibility for Gaza once the current conflict ends. It's an utter mess.

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 22/11/2023 12:39

Surplus2requirements · 20/11/2023 22:24

Sky news is reporting there has been what is probably the first street protest in Moscow against the war by wives and mothers of Russian soldiers.

It was broken up within minutes by police but i feel considering the risk of such severe sanctions for speaking out its significant in the Kremlins back yard.

Wasn't it the wives and mothers of Russian soldiers who brought about an end to the Russia/Afghanistan conflict?

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/11/2023 13:01

backtowinter · 22/11/2023 02:01

I think it's donation time folks

I think you're right.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/11/2023 13:04

Also, best wishes to DanceswithDucks for a swift recovery.

notimagain · 22/11/2023 13:04

@BringBackCoffeeCreams

"If you lack the cognitive ability to comprehend this then pop off back to your echo chamber that is the ME threads. This one is about Ukraine."

Well said.

(also thanks to @TheABC)

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 22/11/2023 14:01

@Natsku Have you guys seen an uptick in security measures in Finland like we have in Sweden?

blueshoes · 22/11/2023 14:04

Kyiv Independent Telegram Highlights

⚡Media: Polish farmers plan (https://kyivindependent.com/media-polish-farmers-plan-to-join-border-protest/) to join border protest.

Ukraine war latest: Austin visits Kyiv, US announces new $100 million military aid package (https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-war-latest-austin-visits-kyiv-us-announces-new-100-million-military-aid-package/)

⚡️US sanctions (https://kyivindependent.com/us-sanctions-russian-officers-who-committed-war-crimes-in-bucha-andriivka/) Russian officers Colonel Azatbek Omurbekov and Guard Corporal Daniil Frolkin who committed war crimes over their role in the killings of Ukrainian civilians in Bucha, Andriivka.

⚡️ISW: Putin wants to break up (https://kyivindependent.com/isw-putin-wants-to-break-up-nato/) NATO. Moscow's hybrid warfare tactics on the Finnish-Russian border are likely part of a broader goal to destabilize NATO countries near Russia's borders. The current tensions between Russia and Finland are largely a result of Russia engineering an artificial migrant crisis at Finland's border, the ISW said.

⚡️National Resistance Center: Occupiers in Kherson, Zaporizhzhia oblasts recruit (https://kyivindependent.com/national-resistance-center-occupiers-in-kherson-zaporizhzhia-oblasts-recruit-informants-from-unemployed-residents/) informants from unemployed residents. The Center said that once recruited, the collaborators pass information about other local residents with pro-Ukrainian views to the occupying authorities.

⚡️German Defense Minister Pistorius arrives in Kyiv (https://kyivindependent.com/german-defense-minister-pistorius-arrives-in-kyiv-on-unannounced-visit/) on unannounced visit to "personally see the current situation and the effectiveness of German support,"

⚡️Moldovan president, European Council chief arrive in Kyiv (https://kyivindependent.com/moldovan-president-maia-sandu-arrives-in-kyiv-on-ukrainian-holiday-day-of-dignity-and-freedom/) on 10th anniversary of EuroMaidan.

⚡️AP: Cypriot president asks foreign experts (https://kyivindependent.com/ap-cypriot-president-asked-foreign-experts-to-help-with-russian-sanctions-investigations/) to help with Russian sanction evasion investigations.

⚡SBU detains (https://kyivindependent.com/sbu-detains-priest-of-kremlin-linked-church-over-spreading-pro-russian-propaganda/) priest of Kremlin-linked church over spreading pro-Russian propaganda during sermons and on Telegram

⚡️Germany's exports to Russia in October decrease (https://kyivindependent.com/germanys-exports-to-russia-decrease-by-more-than-37-over-past-year/) by more than 37% from past year. Before the beginning of the full-scale invasion, Russia was Germany's fifth most important trading partner outside of the European Union, but has since fallen to 18th place.

⚡️Audit of Chernihiv Oblast military unit reveals (https://kyivindependent.com/defense-ministry-audit-for-unit-in-chernihiv-oblast-reveals-discrepancy-of-more-than-1-million/) procurement wrongdoing.
One of the primary discrepancies was related to the purchase of generators, which were significantly marked up from their sticker price.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 45
blueshoes · 22/11/2023 14:06

10th anniversay of EuroMaidan

⚡️Zelensky on 10th anniversary of EuroMaidan: 'It is up to our generation to determine the direction (Ukraine's history) will take.' (https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-marks-holiday-day-of-dignity-and-freedom-commemorating-euromaidan-revolution/)

"Year after year, step by step, we do everything to ensure that our star shines in the circle of stars on the EU flag, which symbolizes the unity of the peoples of Europe," Zelensky said in a video address.

"Twenty years ago, it was a romantic dream, 10 years ago, it was an ambitious goal, and today, it is a reality in which it is no longer possible to stop our progress."

Explaining Ukraine: EuroMaidan Revolution (https://kyivindependent.com/euro-maidan-revolution/)

The EuroMaidan Revolution is often credited with being the single most consequential event in Ukraine’s modern history.

In November 2013, pro-Kremlin President Viktor Yanukovych refused to sign the long-awaited Association Agreement with the European Union.

His refusal to sign the agreement sparked protests all over the country, with the largest demonstration taking place in Kyiv on Independence Square, known in Ukrainian as Maidan Nezalezhnosti.

The protests would turn into a revolution that lasted until February 2014, ending with Yanukovych fleeing to Russia.

Zelensky on 10th anniversary of EuroMaidan: 'It is up to our generation to determine the direction (Ukraine's history) will take'

President Volodymyr Zelensky commemorated the Day of Dignity and Freedom on Nov. 21, which marks the start of two major Ukrainian uprisings — the EuroMaidan Revolution and the Orange Revolution.

https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-marks-holiday-day-of-dignity-and-freedom-commemorating-euromaidan-revolution/

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 22/11/2023 14:14

Did you watch the documentary film about EuroMaidan? It brought me to tears. It also brought home the utter miscalculation Putin made in thinking he could just waltz into Kyiv. The strength and determination the Ukrainian people showed back then to stand firm in the face of tyranny was astounding. Ordinary people of all ages and backgrounds standing together and demanding freedom. There was no way they were going to sit back and let the tanks roll over them.

Natsku · 22/11/2023 14:45

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 22/11/2023 14:01

@Natsku Have you guys seen an uptick in security measures in Finland like we have in Sweden?

Apart from the border stuff, no, not really. But the border stuff does take a lot of attention, especially as its causing the Russian minority here to protest about their rights (most likely part of Russia's aim with the asylum seeker push) which might mean an increase in security measures coming.

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 22/11/2023 15:02

Some of our kommuns have started organising 'krigsplacering' ie formally documenting/certifying who is in a reserved occupation. They say it's just part of their readiness processes as our security risk level had gone up, but it's bloody scary.

backtowinter · 22/11/2023 15:08

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 22/11/2023 14:14

Did you watch the documentary film about EuroMaidan? It brought me to tears. It also brought home the utter miscalculation Putin made in thinking he could just waltz into Kyiv. The strength and determination the Ukrainian people showed back then to stand firm in the face of tyranny was astounding. Ordinary people of all ages and backgrounds standing together and demanding freedom. There was no way they were going to sit back and let the tanks roll over them.

But all the facts are wrong

It was a US coup to install a puppet government. Ukrainians have no agency.

It was something to do with cookies.

🍪

Or at least that's vatnik knowledge

Natsku · 22/11/2023 15:21

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 22/11/2023 15:02

Some of our kommuns have started organising 'krigsplacering' ie formally documenting/certifying who is in a reserved occupation. They say it's just part of their readiness processes as our security risk level had gone up, but it's bloody scary.

That is unsettling. I'm sure they're just overpreparing though, better than underpreparing.