Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 45

981 replies

MagicFox · 26/09/2023 20:14

Thanks to all: contributors, lurkers and those in-between

**
Agreed thread guidance:

A. The agreed purpose of the thread is for the sharing of information and commentary on current events

B. If you post a link please tell us where it leads/give a precis of the content

C. Discussion and debate is welcome, but please keep it respectful

OP posts:
Thread gallery
398
blueshoes · 20/11/2023 10:53

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-november-19-2023

Key Takeaways:

  • Ukrainian and Russian forces are continuing combat operations in eastern and southern Ukraine, although the rainy weather will likely continue to slow the pace of combat operations until winter conditions fully set in.
  • Russian forces conducted another series of drone strikes primarily targeting Kyiv, Poltava, and Cherkasy oblasts on the night of November 18 to 19.
  • Ardent nationalist and former Russian officer Igor Girkin formally announced his intent to run in the 2024 Russian presidential elections despite his imprisonment.
  • The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) may be censoring irregular Russian armed formations as part of its ongoing efforts to formalize Russia’s irregular forces and establish greater control over the Russian information space.
  • Ukrainian officials announced on November 19 that Bohdan Yermokhin, a teenage Ukrainian whom Russian authorities forcibly deported from occupied Mariupol to Russia and attempted to conscript, returned to Ukraine.
  • A prominent Kremlin-affiliated milblogger expressed anger on November 19 about Armenia’s decisions to distance itself from Russia against the backdrop of recent deteriorating Armenian-Russian relations.
  • Russian forces conducted offensive operations along the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna line, near Bakhmut, near Avdiivka, west and southwest of Donetsk City, in the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border area, and in western Zaporizhia Oblast and reportedly advanced in some areas on November 19.
  • Regional Russian officials continue to fear the emergence of localized protests in response to the Russian military’s refusal to return some mobilized personnel from the frontlines.
  • Occupation authorities continue efforts to indoctrinate Ukrainian children in occupied Ukraine into Russian national and cultural identities.
Ukraine Invasion: Part 45
Natsku · 20/11/2023 12:23

DancesWithDucks · 19/11/2023 13:15

Good that David Cameron visited Ukraine. I wonder if anything will come out of it.

The situation with the refugees being directed towards Finland is just awful. It's horrendous that Russia deliberately puts them in this position.

It really is cruel. They travel all that way, sometimes on bicycle, in winter, just to find out the border is closed. Finland is trying to put that info out there to the asylum seekers so they don't make the journey but of course the smugglers tell them it's fine.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 20/11/2023 13:27

It seems like there's no lengths to which russia won't stoop to destabilise the West 🤷‍♀️

DancesWithDucks · 20/11/2023 14:32

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 20/11/2023 13:27

It seems like there's no lengths to which russia won't stoop to destabilise the West 🤷‍♀️

No, there aren't.

Seems Russia has been actively buying bicycles to give to the asylum seekers ....

DancesWithDucks · 20/11/2023 14:48

Kyiv Independent Telegram Highlights

U.S Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said he will prioritize passing further military aid packages for Ukraine and Israel so that they are approved before Christmas, NBC News reported on Nov. 19. https://kyivindependent.com/congressional-leaders-want-to-pass-ukraine-and-israel-military-packages-before-christmas/

⚡️Japanese delegation visits https://kyivindependent.com/pm-shmyhal-japan-to-allocate-175-million-for-ukraines-economic-recovery/ Kyiv, pledges $175 million for reconstruction.

Zelensky met with Lachlan Murdoch, the CEO of the broadcasting giants Fox Corporation and News Corp., as well as journalists from Fox News and News Corp-owned tabloid The Sun during their visit to Kyiv, the President's Office reported on Nov. 20. https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-meets-with-fox-news-ceo/

U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin arrived in Kyiv early on Nov. 20 to meet top Ukrainian officials and "reinforce the staunch support for Ukraine's fight for freedom," the Pentagon reported. https://kyivindependent.com/us-defense-secretary-austin-makes-unannounced-visit-to-ukraine/

⚡️ https://kyivindependent.com/far-right-politician-ukraine-supporter-javier-milei-elected-president-of-argentina-3/
The far-right libertarian MP Javier Milei won Argentina's presidential election on Nov. 19 after a campaign in which he said he would seek to reduce ties to Russia and China, among other policy views that represented a break from the outgoing President Alberto Fernandez.
Although Fernandez condemned Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, he also said he would not send weapons to Ukraine and declined to join sanctions against Russia.

⚡️ Official: Ukraine destroys over 700 units of Russian military equipment https://kyivindependent.com/official-ukraine-destroys-over-700-units-of-russian-military-equipment-7-000-troops-in-one-week/ 7,000 troops in one week.

The Finnish Defense Forces will assist the country's border guards in erecting fences near Kuhmo, a town near Finland's border with Russia amid growing concern over migrants crossing into Finland from Russia, the Finnish Broadcasting Company reported on Nov. 19. https://kyivindependent.com/finland-sends-military-to-build-fences-near-crossing-with-russia/

⚡️Finland preparing https://kyivindependent.com/finland/ to completely close its border with Russia.

Slovakia’s Foreign Affairs Minister Juraj Blanar said Bratislava will not back the EU’s 12th package of sanctions against Russia if it bans the import of Russian nuclear fuel, Slovak news agency Tasr reported on Nov. 18. https://kyivindependent.com/bratislava-to-reject-eus-latest-sanctions-package-if-it-includes-ban-on-russia-nuclear-fuel/
⚡️Kyiv sends https://kyivindependent.com/kyiv-sends-humanitarian-team-to-help-truckers-stuck-at-polish-ukrainian-border-ready-to-conduct-evacuations/ humanitarian team to help truckers stuck at Polish-Ukrainian border.

⚡️Media: Polish border guards allegedly refuse https://kyivindependent.com/media-polish-border-guards-allegedly-refuse-entry-of-humanitarian-goods-into-ukraine/ entry of humanitarian goods into Ukraine.

A Turkish ship with a crew of 12 went missing in the Black Sea amid large storms on Sunday, Reuters reported on Nov. 19. https://kyivindependent.com/reuters-turkish-ship-goes-missing-in-black-sea/ [ I believe it was carrying Ukrainian grain]

There are Ukrainian nationals among those aboard the shipping vessel hijacked in the Red Sea by Yemen's Iran-backed Houthis on Nov. 19, Israeli Prime Minister's Office said. https://kyivindependent.com/ukrainians-aboard-boat-allegedly-seized-by-yemens-houthis/

Zelensky dismissed Medical Forces commander Tetyana Ostashchenko on Nov. 19 amid repeated calls from medics and volunteers to fire the official, replacing her with Anatoly Kazmirchuk, the president announced in his evening address. https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-fires-commander-of-the-medical-forces-of-the-ukrainian-armed-forces-announces-replacement/ [ there are significant problems with the quality of some medical stuff, including torniquets]

The head of Ukraine's State Service of Special Communications and Information Protection and one of his deputies were charged with embezzling over Hr 62 million ($1.7 million) of state funds, the National Anti-Corruption Bureau reported on Nov. 20. https://kyivindependent.com/ukraines-special-communications-service-leaders-dismissed-charged-with-embezzlement/

⚡️Ombudsman: Qatar ready to help https://kyivindependent.com/ombudsman-qatar-ready-to-help-ukraine-return-civilian-pows-from-russia/ Ukraine bring civilian POWs back from Russia.

⚡️Mediazona confirms identities of over 37,000 Russian soldiers https://kyivindependent.com/mediazona-confirms-identities-of-over-37-000-russian-soldiers-killed-in-ukraine/ killed in Ukraine.

⚡️Ukraine retrieves https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-retrieves-94-bodies-of-fallen-soldiers/ the bodies of 94 fallen soldiers.

Russia's Federal Air Transport Agency has proposed that Russian airlines begin regular flights to North Korea in the latest sign of increasing ties between the two countries, Russian state-controlled media Kommersant reported on Nov. 20. https://kyivindependent.com/russian-media-regular-flights-from-russia-to-north-korea-proposed/

We're making headway with our birthday campaign, but we still have a ways to go.
With just 11 days left, we need your help to reach our goal.
Kyiv Independent: Become our member for just $5 per month. https://kyivindependent.com/membership/?utm_source=bday-265-tg&utm_medium=tg&utm_campaign=bday-265**

The photos, which show destroyed civilian infrastructure and residential buildings, were published by Ukrainian brigadier general Oleksandr Tarnavskyi on Telegram on Nov. 19.
Russia has been trying to capture Avdiivka, the gateway to occupied Donetsk, since 2014.

Ragnar Bjartur Gudmundsson 🇺🇦
AT ragnarbjartur.bsky.social
⚡️ WAR IN #UKRAINE - NOV 20
■ Strikes & combat engagements down but 🇷🇺 MLRS strikes stay above average
■ Modest troop & equipment losses reported
■ Oryx: Removal of duplicates lower 🇺🇦 total by 1

DancesWithDucks · 20/11/2023 15:09

UNITED24 Media Telegram Highlights

In Bulgaria, concerns have arisen regarding potential new sabotage in the defense industry allegedly orchestrated by the Russian Federation, as reported by the Financial Times (FT).
Reports suggest that Russian saboteurs have been targeting factories and warehouses belonging to the EMKO company. EMKO is a major manufacturer of Soviet-style projectiles, many of which are supplied to Ukraine. These attacks on EMKO facilities are believed to pose a threat to the production and supply of these munitions.

The first recorded use of five-hundred-kilogram RBK-500 cluster bombs by the Russian enemy in the Donetsk region

The number of mobile groups will be increased to fight against the Shahed throughout Ukraine, — the deputy head of the President's Office.
"Regional military administrations are working on equipping units. A difficult winter awaits us."

The Pentagon has confirmed the successful testing of a new long-range Precision Strike missile in the United States. This missile is intended to replace the ATACMS (Army Tactical Missile System).
The PrSM (Precision Strike Missile) is anticipated to have a maximum range exceeding 1000 kilometers in future configurations. Lockheed Martin is presently focused on developing an Increment-1 variant expected to have a radius of approximately 500-600 kilometers.

Ukrainian energy facilities have implemented a three-level protection system:
▫️The first level involves safeguarding against explosive waves or indirect attacks using Shaheds, which are gabions comprising sandbags secured within metal cages.
▫️The second level incorporates structures designed to defend against direct drone strikes.
▫️At the third level, comprehensive structures are employed to provide combined protection against rocket attacks and "Shahed" strikes.
To support transformers at the substations, concrete block walls have been constructed. Additionally, cylindrical cells filled with sand and stones are utilized. These blocks and cells offer significant protection, accounting for 80-90% of cases, particularly shielding against drones and their debris.

Bohdan Yermokhin, an 18-year-old who was deported from Mariupol and served with a summons in Russia, has returned to Ukraine, according to Ombudsman Lubinets.

DancesWithDucks · 20/11/2023 15:15

Live: Ukraine Telegram Highlights

If the war in Ukraine is frozen, Russia will have 6 years to prepare its troops for a direct conflict with NATO, - research https://dgap.org/en/research/publications/preventing-next-war** by the German Council on Foreign Relations (DGAP)
Analysts believe that an attack is most likely to take place in one of the Baltic states.

🇭🇺 Hungary's ruling party has put up billboards targeting European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen.
The billboards, erected as part of the campaign for next June's European Parliament elections, show von der Leyen with Alex Soros, the son of liberal Hungarian-born financier George Soros, a constant target of hostility from Orban's Fidesz party.
"Let's not dance to their tune," the poster reads.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 45
MagicFox · 20/11/2023 15:20

I still don't understand why Russia would instigate a direct conflict with NATO, unless another actor is in with them

OP posts:
DancesWithDucks · 20/11/2023 15:23

I suspect it'll take them longer; they might back off militarily and fund huge campaigns to pump up corrupt political candidates and discredit NATO & the EU and then try again once the rot is more firmly entrenched.

Igotjelly · 20/11/2023 16:25

I think in theory 6-10 years on paper might be enough but given the structural flaws in their system, apparently inability to innovate and learn and systemic issues with corruption I think that’s highly ambitious. Plus they wouldn’t be fighting the ‘brain dead’ NATO of 2019.

blueshoes · 20/11/2023 17:21

We don't know whether 'Putin' and his doppelgangers will still be around then. Not that it makes much difference, I suppose.

MagicFox · 20/11/2023 17:42

blueshoes · 20/11/2023 17:21

We don't know whether 'Putin' and his doppelgangers will still be around then. Not that it makes much difference, I suppose.

I do have some hope that younger generations don't think the same way and have different ideas about the future and what's at stake/worth adapting to. I know this is less likely to be the case in Russia for obvious reasons but I hold on to this. All these old men, it's not their future they're smashing up

OP posts:
Surplus2requirements · 20/11/2023 22:24

Sky news is reporting there has been what is probably the first street protest in Moscow against the war by wives and mothers of Russian soldiers.

It was broken up within minutes by police but i feel considering the risk of such severe sanctions for speaking out its significant in the Kremlins back yard.

Natsku · 21/11/2023 06:02

MagicFox · 20/11/2023 17:42

I do have some hope that younger generations don't think the same way and have different ideas about the future and what's at stake/worth adapting to. I know this is less likely to be the case in Russia for obvious reasons but I hold on to this. All these old men, it's not their future they're smashing up

The current young adult generation perhaps, but the younger ones probably not as the brainwashing is increasing so much there

The asylum seeker situation is even worse than I thought, apparently some of the asylum seekers don't even want to cross over to Finland but the Russians are forcing them over the border.

DancesWithDucks · 21/11/2023 10:34

Kyiv Independent Telegram Highlights

Russia may begin full mobilization after the 2024 Russian presidential election on March 17, National Security and Defense Council Secretary Oleksii Danilov warned in a speech to the International Security Forum in Halifax, Canada, on Nov. 20. https://kyivindependent.com/danilov-russia-may-begin-total-mobilization-after-2024-presidential-election/

⚡️US announces https://kyivindependent.com/us-announces-100-million-military-aid-package-for-ukraine/ $100 million military aid package for Ukraine.

⚡️MP: Parliament considering https://kyivindependent.com/mp-parliament-considering-draft-law-with-amendments-to-mobilization/ changes to mobilization eligibility.
Ukraine's Parliament is considering making changes to the law on mobilization to expand the list of persons who must register for military service, lawmaker Mariana Bezuhla said on Facebook on Nov. 20.

⚡️ Stoltenberg: Concerning rise in Russian malign influence https://kyivindependent.com/stoltenberg-concerning-rise-in-russian-malign-influence-in-bosnia/ in Bosnia.

NATO members Bulgaria, Turkey, and Romania are close to reaching an agreement on the creation of a joint mine-clearing force to address the issue of mines drifting into their respective territorial waters, Bloomberg reported on Nov. 20.
https://kyivindependent.com/nato-members-nearing-deal-on-joint-black-sea-mine-clearing-force/

⚡️German Defense Minister Pistorius arrives in Kyiv https://kyivindependent.com/german-defense-minister-pistorius-arrives-in-kyiv-on-unannounced-visit/ on unannounced visit.

⚡️Moldovan president, European Council chief arrive in Kyiv https://kyivindependent.com/moldovan-president-maia-sandu-arrives-in-kyiv-on-ukrainian-holiday-day-of-dignity-and-freedom/on 10th anniversary of EuroMaidan.

A group of around 100 farmers plan to join the Polish truckers protest at a border crossing with Ukraine on Nov. 23, Bloomberg reported on Nov. 20 https://kyivindependent.com/media-polish-farmers-plan-to-join-border-protest/

Investigation: Czech parts make their way to Russian military helicopters despite sanctions
https://kyivindependent.com/investigation-czech-parts-make-their-way-to-russian-military-helicopters-despite-sanctions/
The power unit needed to repair Russian Mi-8 transport helicopters is only produced in Czechia. In theory, international sanctions should make it impossible for Russians to get it.
However, a Trap Aggressor investigation conducted exclusively for the Kyiv Independent revealed that Mi-8-specific power units made by PBS Velka Bites continue to reach Russia via intermediaries in Asia.

⚡️National Resistance Center: Occupiers in Kherson, Zaporizhzhia oblasts recruit https://kyivindependent.com/national-resistance-center-occupiers-in-kherson-zaporizhzhia-oblasts-recruit-informants-from-unemployed-residents/ informants from unemployed residents. The Center said that once recruited, the collaborators pass information about other local residents with pro-Ukrainian views to the occupying authorities.

⚡️Media: Russian army boot manufacturers imported https://kyivindependent.com/media-russian-army-bootmakers-imported-over-4-million-worth-of-eu-materials/ over $4 million worth of EU materials.

⚡️ Media: 2 more yachts allegedly belonging to Putin https://kyivindependent.com/media-2-more-yachts-allegedly-belonging-to-putin-discovered/ discovered, the independent Russian anti-corruption project Dossier Center reported on Nov. 20, citing the findings of its investigation.

The Russian Internal Affairs Ministry put Ukrainian singer Jamala, who won the Eurovision Song Contest in 2016, on a federal wanted list, Russian media outlets reported on Nov. 20. https://kyivindependent.com/russia-puts-ukrainian-singer-jamala-on-wanted-list/

Another day with relatively lower losses of hardware, though the Russians are still sending their brutal sheep to the slaughter at 610 dead.

Ragnar Bjartur Gudmundsson 🇺🇦 AT ragnarbjartur.bsky.social

⚡️ WAR IN #UKRAINE - NOV 21
■ Unusually few strikes reported while combat engagements above 7-day average
■ Modest troop & equipment losses 2nd day in a row
■ Oryx: 23 🇷🇺 8 🇺🇦 added to records (11 🇷🇺 after removal of duplicates/corrections)

Ukraine Invasion: Part 45
DancesWithDucks · 21/11/2023 10:46

UNITED24 Media Telegram Highlights

The United States will be able to provide long-range weapons and ammunition to Ukraine at least "for a while," reports The Washington Post, citing officials who accompanied the head of the Pentagon during a trip to Ukraine.

The Pentagon has disclosed a fresh $100 million military assistance package earmarked for Ukraine. This aid comprises a HIMARS MLRS along with supplementary ammunition. Additionally, the package includes Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, 155-mm and 105-mm artillery shells, TOW anti-tank missiles, and Javelin and AT-4 anti-tank systems.
U.S. Secretary of Defense Austin mentioned that this aid package falls under the Presidential Drawdown Authority program, which authorizes the provision of weaponry from the inventories of the U.S. Army.

🇲🇩President of Moldova Maia Sandu arrives in Kyiv.

The EU bought more than 6 billion euros worth of liquefied gas from Russia in 2023, writes The Telegraph
More than half of LNG exported by Russia goes to EU countries. France and Spain are the top three buyers after China.

Japan has handed over a batch of humanitarian aid to Ukrainian rescue workers, including 40 vehicles and 50 metal detectors.

The Kremlin has asserted that Finland fabricated reasons for closing the border and dismissed accusations suggesting that Russian border guards intentionally transport migrants to the Finnish border to incite a crisis, deeming such allegations as unacceptable.

The domestically developed kamikaze drone, named "Backfire," has successfully cleared the Ministry of Defense commission and is currently awaiting authorization for operational deployment, as stated by the Ministry of Digital Transformation.

In Lithuania, fines incurred for non-compliance with international and national sanctions will be allocated towards the restoration of Ukraine, as reported by LRT. This special fund is exclusively designated for assisting Ukraine in recovering from the damages inflicted by Russian aggression. The law is set to remain effective for ten years, lasting until January 2034.

The Armed Forces have acquired three long-range Titan Falcon unmanned aerial vehicles manufactured using a 3D printer.
Capable of a 6-hour flight duration and covering a range of 400 km, the UAV is outfitted with a camera that allows for the installation of a 2.5-inch lens.
Currently, two of these devices are undergoing operational testing in Ukraine's field conditions.

The New York Times: Nearly half a million children in Ukraine have sought help from school psychologists regarding studying difficulties exacerbated by the war. Each school counselor currently works with about 600 children, said Deputy Minister of Education and Science of Ukraine, Yevheniia Smirnova.

Hackers hacked RussiaTV again, showing a message from the Ukrainian Armed Forces and "Swan Lake"
It is reported that such a video was broadcast on the STS and REN TV channels.
Remember, we've once made a video on the matter:

Putin's purported new superyacht, named the 71-meter Victoria valued at $50.1 million, has reportedly been located at a shipyard in Istanbul since the end of October. According to an investigation by Dossier, this marks the ninth among Putin's famed yachts.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 45
DancesWithDucks · 21/11/2023 10:54

Live: Ukraine Telegram Highlights

Austin on supplying Ukraine with Taurus and F-16s: There is no "magic bullet" in this war
The US Secretary of Defense believes that in a war like Russia's full-scale aggression against Ukraine, it is not what kind of weapons are provided to Kyiv that matters, but how they are used and integrated

Russia has managed to organize the supply of power plants for Mi-8 helicopters manufactured by the Czech company PBS Velka Bites through military units in India and Kazakhstan, the manufacturer has already launched an internal investigation - Trap Aggressor

Ukraine Invasion: Part 45
blueshoes · 21/11/2023 10:56

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-november-20-2023

Key Takeaways:

  • Russia appears to be employing a known hybrid warfare tactic to artificially create a migrant crisis on the Finnish border.
  • Russia’s apparent hybrid warfare tactic on the Russian-Finnish border is similar to Russia’s and Belarus’ creation of a migrant crisis on the Polish border in 2021 and is likely similarly aimed at destabilizing NATO.
  • Russian milbloggers expressed continued anger at deteriorating Russian-Armenian relations as Armenia appears to distance itself further from Russia while entering further agreements with Western governments.
  • The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) reportedly started public recruitment for the Russian “Africa Corps” aimed at subsuming Wagner Group operations in Africa after alleged failed MoD attempts to directly recruit former Wagner personnel.
  • The Russian Strelkov (Igor Girkin) Movement (RDS) predictably backed Girkin’s November 19 formal announcement of his intent to run in the 2024 Russian presidential election.
  • Chechen Republic Head Ramzan Kadyrov continues efforts to distinguish himself in the Russian information space, infringing on the generally accepted boundaries between Russian federal subject (region) heads and Russian President Vladimir Putin.
  • The US Department of Defense (DoD) announced a new security assistance package to Ukraine during US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin's visit to Kyiv on November 20.
  • Russian forces conducted offensive operations along the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna line, near Bakhmut, near Avdiivka, west and southwest of Donetsk City, in the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border area, and in western Zaporizhia Oblast and marginally advanced in some areas.
  • A Russian federal subject (region) and occupation officials are reportedly planning to work together to provide drones to Russian forces.
  • A Ukrainian official reported that Ukraine successfully returned 45 Ukrainian children whom Russian authorities forcibly deported to Russia in the past six months.

[Worrying]

Ukraine Invasion: Part 45
SoMuchSimpler · 21/11/2023 19:57

"Despite Ukraine’s much-heralded counteroffensive, Russia has actually gained more territory over the course of 2023 than Ukraine has"

Is that true? It doesn't feel like that.

DancesWithDucks · 21/11/2023 21:05

That unfortunately fits with some of the info quietly not being mentioned much, such as the ISW consistent observations that the Russians are making small but steady advances for weeks / months, and the fact that in at least two places and possibly more, large numbers of children have been evacuated ( 50in one case 230+ in another)

L1ttledrummergirl · 21/11/2023 22:23

SoMuchSimpler · 21/11/2023 19:57

"Despite Ukraine’s much-heralded counteroffensive, Russia has actually gained more territory over the course of 2023 than Ukraine has"

Is that true? It doesn't feel like that.

I'd be dubious about that. Remember Russia has an awful lot of hairy handed bridge dwellers trying to spin small wins as big ones.

They are still bogged down, their 2 day special operation has cost them over a quarter of a million lives for what is at the moment in all likelihood a patch of mud.

I believe Ukraine has a strategy, and I don't believe that any Russian gains will hold in the long run. The longer it drags on, the more bad feeling there is for Russia and the longer it will take for their country to recover. Ukraine will have the support of the rest of the world to rebuild, Russia will not.

DdraigGoch · 21/11/2023 22:27

L1ttledrummergirl · 21/11/2023 22:23

I'd be dubious about that. Remember Russia has an awful lot of hairy handed bridge dwellers trying to spin small wins as big ones.

They are still bogged down, their 2 day special operation has cost them over a quarter of a million lives for what is at the moment in all likelihood a patch of mud.

I believe Ukraine has a strategy, and I don't believe that any Russian gains will hold in the long run. The longer it drags on, the more bad feeling there is for Russia and the longer it will take for their country to recover. Ukraine will have the support of the rest of the world to rebuild, Russia will not.

I would say that it's true, but Russia has paid for it in an awful lot of blood.

DancesWithDucks · 21/11/2023 23:05

@L1ttledrummergirl about the Ukrainian strategy, I wonder how crossing the Dnipro fits into it.

It's been said Russia is undertaking another covert mobilization, with a guess that a general mobilization might happen after the 'election'. Today it was reported that Ukraine is widening the criteria for people eligible for mobilization. It's certainly looking like things are going to go on and on chewing up soldiers :(

backtowinter · 22/11/2023 02:01

I think it's donation time folks

Swipe left for the next trending thread