What do the Labour party need to do to stop their slow death?

[flashbac]

I'll start:

Starmer needs to stop acting like a rabbit in the headlights and actually stand for something. He has no charisma or gravitas. We want someone with a personality. Stand for something Starmer!

Stop pandering to the 'red wall'. Inspire people to vote for the party with some good policies instead of flip flopping about.

Have some inspiring and uplifting policies like:

• Free childcare for working parents
• making public transport normal and affordable
• subsidised green energy initiatives to help householders lower energy bills eg solar panels etc

And they NEED to distance themselves from that anti science TWAW stance. I'm all for being kind but a blanket dilution of what 'woman' means is regressive.

@RedToothBrush

Cat is what Labour need (and why I like your posts). Its what I'm trying to get at with the passion stuff. And the belief stuff.

Unfortunately its not what Labour have. Nor seem to want. And what Starmer isn't...

I feel Starmer is but the Labour party is still in a bitter civil war after JC and the last GE plus the Pandemic has hidden the worst of Tory policies.

The next GE is 3 or more years away, I think KS is the best person to turn things around but its a monumental task, people want results and quickly.
If people don't get behind Labour, then what we'll get is another 10 maybe 20 years of Tory rule as the Labour party split in two.

@Andante57

Remember when a tory supporting newspaper ('Mail i think) said Starmer owned land, ripe for development, worth 10m with planning it never had.... when in fact it was a field he got for his parents to look after rescue donkeys.

The narrative we have on Labour is messed up and people form opinions based on it.

Jasjas the same happens with the Tories. Do you or anyone else know for certain that Boris Johnson made the ‘let the bodies pile high’ remark?
Or is it an attempt to smear him?

Sure, good point, smears are done by both sides.

However, there is a difference between making up a story about a field, that 5 mins on Google would disprove and one where senior aides say they would swear on oath he said it, personally, i think the "let it Rip" remark (if true) is by far the worse he said, that would have made us like Brazil or India, with 100s of '000 of deaths.

If he did say it @Andante57 would it change your vote or opinion of BJ/Cons ?

The mail is saying Boris has gold wallpaper!

Not exactly a much needed fit out because of run down conditions.

Labour need to stop with the sneery attitude and always complaining.

How about they actually start being up beat and telling us what their policies would be to make life better for the majority of the population?

Most people really couldn't give a toss about Boris' wallpaper. Obsessions like that are why people don't vote Labour anymore.

It's easy to criticise others, but harder to come up with how they'd do things better!

@user1497207191

Labour need to stop with the sneery attitude and always complaining.

How about they actually start being up beat and telling us what their policies would be to make life better for the majority of the population?

Most people really couldn't give a toss about Boris' wallpaper. Obsessions like that are why people don't vote Labour anymore.

It's easy to criticise others, but harder to come up with how they'd do things better!

The gold wallpaper is an aside granted and not going to change peoples votes.

However it is gold WALLPAPER. Personally I would be and talk about it if anyone got gold wallpaper. You must have a higher standard for your what the F reaction

So some say labour should do more complaining and challenge the tories and others say labour shouldn't complain or criticise because that comes across as sneering . So an opposition party isn't supposed to oppose ? And an opposition party isn't supposed to highlight potential corruption because people aren't interested ?

I think the answer is we the public can go why on earth does anyone need gold wallpaper

Whereas the labour party officials need to stick to saying did the money need to be declined for whatever reason. If so was it. Then kick up if anything iffy happened

Not sure that is difficult to understand. No more playground stuff. Nobody ever appreciated that in the house of parliament. Them all acting like hecklers (both sides) Now it has fallen out of parliament it is very tiresome and annoying to the average person.

Declared

The mail is saying Boris has gold wallpaper!

Funny how when the Daily Mail report something negative about Tories it’s immediately believed.

@Onetoomuch

So some say labour should do more complaining and challenge the tories and others say labour shouldn't complain or criticise because that comes across as sneering . So an opposition party isn't supposed to oppose ? And an opposition party isn't supposed to highlight potential corruption because people aren't interested ?

A year ago Labour should have offered to help. Notto stand back and then start finding things to criticise. They should have spoken up in parliament and made offers of contacts, help, man power and anything else that was required. A cross party covid task force.

Then they would have been on record as having been willing to help, no matter what Johnon's response.

But St Starmer vacillated between sniping and moaning, pointing out the obvious and being late with any commentary, praise or condemnation.

Now? Labour should have been on top of the vaccine data, helped restrain/challenge the worst of the journalism, SM furore and conspiracy shite. And then, and only then, would they have any ground upon which to stand and point an accusatory finger!

They can't even play the politicking game! What use are they?

So just listening to pmq’s and this sums up the problem with Keir for me. 3 of his questions were about who paid for boris wallpaper. I honestly couldn’t care less. I really really couldn’t. No question at all about the hundreds of people that lost their jobs / went to prison over the PO scandal. It was Left to a Tory mP to ask one and demand an apology/ enquiry to which Boris agrees.
Where is Keir on this story? Why doesn’t he think it is worthy of a question in pmq’s? The biggest scandal in U.K. history that has directly impacted working people. One man killed himself.
I thought Keir would lead on it but no Boris and his wallpaper.
Sums up the problem for me

@Andante57

The mail is saying Boris has gold wallpaper!

Funny how when the Daily Mail report something negative about Tories it’s immediately believed.

I thought that was what people were saying about labour a few pages ago 😂

Kier knows if he goes there the Tories will make it about him. They will have a plan all set out waiting. After all they employ people to advise them on the spin. Kier was CPS at the time. It is as simple as that. Kier couldn't have comprehend what was happening I think but in politics that doesn't matter. Boris will shift all the blame on him rather than share it.

I guess something will happen to put Labour back in favour - it’s unusual in a democracy for the same party to stay in power indefinitely (isn’t it? -maybe there are democratic countries where this happens).

@Andante57

I guess something will happen to put Labour back in favour - it’s unusual in a democracy for the same party to stay in power indefinitely (isn’t it? -maybe there are democratic countries where this happens).

Not sure that is any longer the case? Labour is non existent in Scotland because the independence issue and should Scotland go their own way & with boundary commission changes, i think the tories will have an inbuilt majority, given our FPTP system.

Even without the above, the Tories have been in power for the majority of the post war period.

Its why i can't support the Cons, they've been in power for the much of my life time, yet we have such poor public services, 50k nurse vacancies, super hi council tax, rubbish adult soc care, housing and inequality, if they were any good, this wouldn't be the case or at least it wouldn't be so bad.... i mean a 5 year NHS waiting list? & it was dire before CV too.

Maybe you’re right Jasjas - but your post brings us back to the original question: where is Labour going wrong if so much of what the Tories do is unacceptable.

I think one day there may be some form of dictatorship - I don’t know whether it will be right wing or left wing. And no, I don’t think today’s Tory party is a fascist dictatorship.
I mean one with a functioning secret police, people being ‘disappeared’, a terrified population, closed borders, a state broadcaster with no dissent allowed on radio or tv, heavily censored internet, children encouraged to denounce their parents etc.
More like North Korea, the Nazis or the former East Germany.

It will start with an elected government and go on from there.
I hope I’m wrong.

Are you trying to get someone to point out Corbyn and the Woke members combined result if they had been allowed to win ???

😶

@TruelyWonder

Are you trying to get someone to point out Corbyn and the Woke members combined result if they had been allowed to win ???

😶

Truely was that addressed to me?

Labour, or at least certain people in Labour have spent the last 11 years trashing the only Labour Prime Minister to win an election a lot of us actually remember. It's hardly a big sell for a Labour government is it?

'Remember when Labour were in power?'
'Yes, I remember Blair'
'Awful, wasn't he? And he wasn't really Labour at all'.

So if you think he was good, you've been told he wasn't really Labour, and if you think he was awful, you've just been reminded that Labour run illegal wars, drain the Treasury etc etc.

Yes Andante57. It is a interesting comment and the only logical answer I can see for the comment.

So?

If you read my post you would have seen that I said ‘ I don’t know whether it will be right wing or left wing’

So?

@Andante57

If you read my post you would have seen that I said ‘ I don’t know whether it will be right wing or left wing’

So?

I read that but I am asking if you are fishing for someone to point out our narrow escape or something.

That is how I take that post because if you read the first few pages of the thread. People talking about Labour in recent years. Well that is a little more extreme than people are imagining but not miles away. Especially for some of us under a Corbyn government with Woke silencing behaviour.

I read that but I am asking if you are fishing for someone to point out our narrow escape or something

If I’d thought a Corbyn victory would have turned into a dictatorship then I would have said so.
I suppose it could’ve happened but maybe there would have been be civil war first.

I would want to know who advised KS to think people want to know the colour of BJs wallpaper.

Then sack them

I think this is what we expect from the Labour Party. Sneering. And thinking people think they are being clever.

Stop looking at what others are doing and start looking at what Labour can do

Johnson is a shit.
Every sane person know that.
But Starmer has still not given me reasons to vote for him
rather than spoil my ballot.