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What do the Labour party need to do to stop their slow death?

632 replies

flashbac · 25/04/2021 10:34

I'll start:

Starmer needs to stop acting like a rabbit in the headlights and actually stand for something. He has no charisma or gravitas. We want someone with a personality. Stand for something Starmer!

Stop pandering to the 'red wall'. Inspire people to vote for the party with some good policies instead of flip flopping about.

Have some inspiring and uplifting policies like:

  • Free childcare for working parents
  • making public transport normal and affordable
  • subsidised green energy initiatives to help householders lower energy bills eg solar panels etc

And they NEED to distance themselves from that anti science TWAW stance. I'm all for being kind but a blanket dilution of what 'woman' means is regressive.

OP posts:
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Onetoomuch · 27/04/2021 20:15

@thecatfromjapan so well put. I wish I could have said that so articulately !

TruelyWonder · 27/04/2021 20:30

@thecatfromjapan

I think you pretty much are like my family and friends. This is how everyone was until Cobyn and his cronies destroyed our trust. Turned the party into something to avoid. Something to worry about. If you voted for people that are ok with prejudice last election. Well I wouldn't publicly admit that in my community. Most Jewish and Muslim people here felt sick at the thought of Corbyn getting in.

Keir I thought was going to sweep out the vile but he seems to have been blocked at every turn. Apparently some party members will back Corbyn and his crew forever.

In the mean time what are we supposed to do with no descent party to vote for and people like you telling us how lovely it all is still. Rather than demanding change.

Also like others I have worries about female rights and want reassurance. Though I probably are a bit more liberal about trans issues than some posters. I feel all parties need to protect women in prison better. Toilets can be gender neutral but only if designed to be. School children need better protection not policies that endanger them or make them feel uncomfortable.

thecatfromjapan · 27/04/2021 21:02

Truely I am so sorry about that. It's such an awful episode.

For myself, I had an exceptional MP, who really has been outspoken. I'm proud of her.

So, for me, it was far easier.

And things are changing.

I'll be honest - I'd like more change. I'd like a clear signal that the culture has changed. That there is more listening. That there is less imposing 'correct' opinions on people.

You can't do that.

It doesn't work.

And that goes for asking women to give up rights.

You can't impose that. There will have to be shifting and safeguarding.

Try and impose, not reach for solutions where the majority of people feel comfortable, and people just won't vote for you.

It's that simple.

People can't be asked to give their vote under sufferance, or bullied into it. People have the right to feel great when they vote.

The right to know that they are voting for more: more opportunities, a better life experience, a better existence - for others and for themselves.

It should make you feel happy and optimistic.

That is what I am working for.

So are many, many others like me.

And it is changing. It really is.

As I said, I, personally, could do with faster change. But I do see the differences.

My hope is for a real shift, across the Party, to understanding that you can't impose correct views - you have to argue for, persuade, and tolerate difference until consent/consensus/compromise is achieved.

I see that in my own patch of Labour - and I see it spreading from the top down, too.

I want more of that.

But, generally, I really am - still, after all these years - in love with the underlying vision of Labour: that it is possible to go forwards together, that it is possible to build a society that is filled with opportunity, with increased wealth, with increased health and longevity, with interest and pleasure and excitement for all of us, not just those who were lucky at birth.

And we can do that together, not just in a mad, fear-based scramble to try and grab as much as your own two hands can hold.

In fact, I think it's a way of living for society that is far more likely to result in innovation, wealth and health than any other approach - because you open up opportunities for people, and there are just more people building that exciting future.

I'm just optimistic.

I don't really like doom-filled narratives of fear. I don't like being told - either by the Right or the Left - that we humans are wicked, innately selfish, inherently corrupt and bad.

I think that's daft.

We came together to build the NHS, a free state education system ... loads of things.

We're capable of this. We're capable of more.

And we need to come together and crack in with more amazing things we could do - together. Tackling climate change. Re-energising the public sector. Investing in social care. Really getting to grips with sharing out the burden of care - because being cared for is something we all deserve, when old, young, or unwell. And we should choose, as a society, to take responsibility for that care.

So, those are Labour values. They're my values. And I strongly suspect they are values lots and lots of other people name as their values, too.

I just think this is a founding belief of Labour. It's not unique to Lsbour. But it's built in. And it really matters. 🤷‍♀️

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

thecatfromjapan · 27/04/2021 21:07

Anyway.

Enough of that.

I guess this thread has made me dig down into ... stuff.

Honestly, it's an interesting thread.

I know a lot of posters have answered with honesty and integrity.

And I know Labour had lost a lot of good people.

I hope we get to the point where people start thinking of Labour with live and excitement. That it becomes a Party that makes people feel good about their lives, choices and futures.

🤷‍♀️

Onetoomuch · 27/04/2021 21:07

Are you a speech writer for Keir Starmer ? If not you should be !

TruelyWonder · 27/04/2021 21:13

@Onetoomuch

Are you a speech writer for Keir Starmer ? If not you should be !
I was thinking the poster needs to right a speech for kier too

The first part anyway. I don't need the bottom half as my father was a union leader and life long labour supporter (Until he was 65 and Corbyn took over. He was very upset that his last vote couldn't be labour. That the party was looking so torn apart. (His cancer got him shortly after).

MarshaBradyo · 27/04/2021 21:16

The right to know that they are voting for more: more opportunities, a better life experience, a better existence - for others and for themselves.

It should make you feel happy and optimistic.

This is what I posted below too. Opportunity and agree optimism

Blair got this and was able to highlight education as part of it

noblegiraffe · 27/04/2021 21:19

On a practical note, what happened to those misogynist anti-Semitic wankers who bullied out Luciana Berger?

OooMrRigsby · 27/04/2021 21:21

[quote Onetoomuch]@OooMrRigsby So it was Boris johnsons idea then ? Or rather they contacted the government....
Like one of his ministers yesterday said Boris had vaccinated so many millions of people Hmm
Funny how they aren't taking responsibility for NHS track and trace or however many 1000s of deaths due to delayed lockdown, that will be brushed under the carpet.[/quote]
Hang on a minute, it was the poster I quoted who said that he had ordered ventilators, not me Confused

Onetoomuch · 27/04/2021 21:26

@OooMrRigsby sorry ! I was having a bit of a rant Blush
A few months ago I saw some of Tony blair's early speeches and they were pretty inspiring at the time.

thecatfromjapan · 27/04/2021 21:34

noble I'm sure some have been disciplined and some will have left.

Personally, I want more disciplining and anyone who thinks that was excusable to leave.

That's part of what I mean when I say I want a thorough culture shift.

It wasn't just individuals that allowed that - it was an entire culture that permitted and enabled it.

It was truly shameful.

So, that's a thorough, absolute change that I need.

There's no point sugar-coating it: pockets are still there in Labour where people still try and excuse it.

I'm glad Starmer made it clear it wasn't acceptable in his vision of Labour very early on. And he hasn't been forgiven for that.

But I'll be honest - I'd like more, much more, on that culture shift.

thecatfromjapan · 27/04/2021 21:44

Just to prove I'm not KS' speech writer:

There really were some nasty fuckers sheltering in the LP then. ☹️

It makes me incredibly depressed that my LP had become a toasty environment for them.

Utterly grim.

But, you know, that really is something Starmer came out fighting about.

He had no truck with weaselling about, contorting himself into slippery knots about antisemitism.

And it earned him implacable enmity.

So, you know, not totally a bland potato.

He has teeth.

And there's been a lot of that gojng in within the Party. Not necessarily visible to those who have lives outside Party politics aren't.

Theythinkitsalloveritisnow · 27/04/2021 21:45

He has acted on anti-Semitism, thank god, but seems not to be doing anything about abuse of female politicians who aren't chanting TWAW as they are supposed to. Why not?

Mrsorganmorgan · 27/04/2021 21:48

.

TruelyWonder · 27/04/2021 21:48

Kier obviously tried to put things right. However since these interviews he has not had support in the matter from Corbyn supporters in the party. The suspension was a disaster. Members raged and Corbyn is very much still lurking around.

If things had been successful like these interviews indicated they could be. Then people would feel so much better knowing any trace of prejudice was gone.

Blackberrycream · 27/04/2021 22:41

I think we need to think back to the mood after the last election. For many it felt like Labour had been lost to the mass influx of membership from more extreme elements. It was hard to see how it was recoverable.
In this context, I think Starmer has done quite well. He has absolutely challenged the despicable anti Semitic elements as well as those who were happy to tolerate it. It will be a long road before they are electable again though. The trust will be hard to rebuild and those elements are still present.

MoltenLasagne · 27/04/2021 22:50

Bloody hell @thecatfromjapan that's got to be one of the most inspirational defences of Labour I've seen in years.

And it's true, that is what used to inspire me about the party, but now the women I see who are trying to achieve these goals are either being forced out or are opting out from frustration. It's the ongoing question, how much energy do we spend to fight for the soul of a party who is not just willing, but actively invested, in throwing us under the bus?

Noname99 · 27/04/2021 23:02

thecatfromjapan

You should be his speech writer though because that is exactly what most of us want to hear, want to believe in and if you add you in some solid policy to back it up, we’d vote for it.
That’s what most on here have been patiently (for the most trying part) trying to explain but have been met by the usual moral superior contempt and whataboutery.
If you are active in the LP and you representatives of how things are changing and what the LP is seeking to become again then honestly I’d be bloody delighted and you’ll have my vote

Noname99 · 27/04/2021 23:05

*there appears to be 2 x superfluous “you” in my post!!

RedToothBrush · 27/04/2021 23:52

Cat is what Labour need (and why I like your posts). Its what I'm trying to get at with the passion stuff. And the belief stuff.

Unfortunately its not what Labour have. Nor seem to want. And what Starmer isn't...

awaynboilyurheid · 28/04/2021 08:11

cat you are giving us all hope back that Labour will be an opposition again, what a great post , reaffirms why I vote Labour.
To all those who think the tories care more about woman’s rights really? The right wing press have done a great job there.
Cat , KS needs your speeches and to show the fire in his leadership. I’ve Just read Obama’s book he talks about Gordon Brown and that he was so knowledgable on anything economy related, then talks about David Cameron, how he’s the first to take his tie and jacket off at meetings,( I read that as ( look at me how relaxed am I guys)and his impression of David Cameron as someone who has had an easy path through life, Sums them up him and Boris playing at politics.
Come on Labour we need you to come back fighting!

MsMartini · 28/04/2021 08:47

@thecatfromjapan, great post - that's so true about wanting to feel excited about voting.

I'm afraid I just feel angry and weary, as an LP member. My CLP vote recently was a caricature - the Corbyn slate talked about building socialism and inclusion - not one of them mentioned winning an election. The Starmer slate all talked about winning elections. This is the official opposition and they can't even agree that winning elections matters.

Workingfromhomeishell · 28/04/2021 09:16

Again, labour need to ditch the likes of sadiq Khan.

Detestable individual who has done so much harm. Whist they continue to endource the likes of him they have no hope.