What do the Labour party need to do to stop their slow death?

[flashbac]

I'll start:

Starmer needs to stop acting like a rabbit in the headlights and actually stand for something. He has no charisma or gravitas. We want someone with a personality. Stand for something Starmer!

Stop pandering to the 'red wall'. Inspire people to vote for the party with some good policies instead of flip flopping about.

Have some inspiring and uplifting policies like:

• Free childcare for working parents
• making public transport normal and affordable
• subsidised green energy initiatives to help householders lower energy bills eg solar panels etc

And they NEED to distance themselves from that anti science TWAW stance. I'm all for being kind but a blanket dilution of what 'woman' means is regressive.

[jasjas1973]

[quote rwalker]@Bythemillpond
Totally agree you could throw money at the NHS all day long and it would not fix it .
The waste in the NHS is eye watering .
To fix the NHS you need to complete restrucher it and get all it's process polished up .
People need to make better lifestyle choices and take PERSONAL responibilty for there health[/quote]
Personal responsibility? absolutely.

But funding? by not funding the NHS, it becomes less able to treat people in time and this adds to costs... so as we seem to be all coming out with our own personal stories... i needed an op, small & routine... NHS say we will do it when it becomes an emergency admission (at that stage it would be life threatening and a very big op) so i went private, total cost £1800!

The NHS gets restructured whenever there is a new govt, it doesn't work, like moving deckchairs on the Titanic.
It has 40k nurse vacancies, in total 110k staff vacancies, how can it operate well with this going on?
30% of nurses now want to leave!

As a country we spend £2.9k per head on health, the EU15 average is £3.6k per head.

@Bythemillpond I asked a friend of mine who works on reception at our local GP practice and she said "Write to your GP practice manager" its his or her job to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen.

[TheHoneyBadger]

Then only order those pills every other month.

You have control over what you order or you call and have the repeat changed on the system.

[Badbadbunny]

@TheHoneyBadger

Then only order those pills every other month.

You have control over what you order or you call and have the repeat changed on the system.

OH doesn't order his cancer/chemo drugs himself. He gets a carrier bag full every month of every possible drug for the "just in case" scenarios. He's tried numerous times to get the ones he doesn't need removed, as he's lots of unused packets already, but they (oncologist and specialist cancer nurse) say it's too much hassle to change the standard prescription.

Used to be the same with me at my GP surgery. No matter what boxes I ticked on the repeat prescription form, or what I asked for when I phoned, they'd tick everything before sending it through to the pharmacy. It's no surprise that the pharmacy was also owned by the GP partners, so they made profit on dispensing more than was needed. I got fed up of the waste, so I changed the pharmacy to an independent one down the road - funny enough the GP surgery stopped issuing everything on the repeat list once I'd done that!

[WellIfYouInsist]

The appointment letter is a prime example of where money could be saved. Every letter has to be produced (often on expensive headed paper), put in an (often white, which as anyone who has ever ordered anything in the NHS will tell you, is the must expensive) envelope, sealed, taken to the post room, sorted, franked and collected by the RM. Only for the date/time to be inconvenient and the whole process too start again.

The covid vaccination programme has shown how well online booking can work for many people obviously she people will still need paper soundness, but it shouldn't be the norm.

[Badbadbunny]

@Porridgecake

I agree the amount of waste in the NHS is huge. Most of it is down to rigid procurement rules where things like stationery and light bulbs can only be purchased from one supplier at roughly 10 times the normal price. Fraud is a big problem. Waste of prescription drugs, like pp mentioned, cupboards full of repeat prescriptions in (mostly elderly) people's houses that nobody has reviewed. When my elderly neighbour died we cleared dozens and dozens of boxes of medicines, all unopened. staff are careless about wasting things too - because it is "free".
The majority of the spending increase in the NHS under Tony Blair was due to his infamous PFI initiative and we are still paying off those debts today.
Income from BTL is taxed and there are very few allowances that can be claimed. Inheritance tax is around 40%.

A few years ago, a ward in our local infirmary was all over local media as the nurses had done an experiment in cost savings. They procured non medical items themselves from non NHS approved suppliers, such as local firms, local shops, online retailers, etc and saved a fortune. This wasn't on medication or other medical supplies, it was non medical stuff like toilet rolls, tissues, paper towels, sick bowls, cleaning products, stationery, and other consumables, etc. I seem to remember they saved £50k for just one ward in six months or so. Pretty shocking stuff really. Even the trust chief executive was quoted as congratulating them.

[jasjas1973]

@WellIfYouInsist

The appointment letter is a prime example of where money could be saved. Every letter has to be produced (often on expensive headed paper), put in an (often white, which as anyone who has ever ordered anything in the NHS will tell you, is the must expensive) envelope, sealed, taken to the post room, sorted, franked and collected by the RM. Only for the date/time to be inconvenient and the whole process too start again.

The covid vaccination programme has shown how well online booking can work for many people obviously she people will still need paper soundness, but it shouldn't be the norm.

All my hospital appointments and GP letters have always been in cheap thin brown envelopes, GP now use texts to tell you about appointments, no letter sent.

the vaccination program is partly online but the letters were sent out to tell you to book using the ref numbers.

No one uses franking machines anymore, they are pre paid envelops, RM stamp them at sorting office.

[WellIfYouInsist]

Certainly not the case in the acute trust I worked in most recently, nor when receiving appointment letters, it was white envelopes and headed paper all the way. The cost of postage for all those letters is outrageous, despite the discount RM give for 'clean' ie printed envelopes. I wasn't aware that franking had moved away from post rooms, but the cost of that will be within the cost of postage so is still meet by the NHS in the end

GPs don't send out appointment letters, of course not. As for receiving a letter to book a covid vaccination, booking links are being sent by text and you can also book online without waiting to be contacted if you fall into certain categories eg over 40.

[Whingey]

What did they do with the 17 million Captain Tom gave?

[Onetoomuch]

@jasjas1973 I'm a nurse, 30 odd years experience. Caught covid and now got long covid. I returned to work after 12 weeks off. Although my managers knew (band 7s) they didn't communicate to junior
managers how ill I'd been so I was treated as if I was 100% fit despite me telling them otherwise. I'm quite amenable doormat so just complied. Ended up relapsing. I'm now probably going to have to take flexi retirement, might even drop to a HCA just to avoid the stress. I rang the department responsible for pension predictions and it's going to take them 12 weeks to calculate it as the demand is so huge.
I dread to think how many staff are going to leave....

[noblegiraffe]

This spoof article from the Daily Mash is probably fair. www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/why-i-accept-full-responsibility-for-the-total-fking-shitshow-i-was-handed-by-sir-keir-starmer-20210505207745

[user1497207191]

@jasjas1973 No one uses franking machines anymore, they are pre paid envelops, RM stamp them at sorting office.

Yes, they do. The NHS is badly fragmented with different trusts etc. Some still use white envelopes and franking machines. Between me and OH, we have multiple interactions with various depts, trusts, etc. Ironically, it's only the GP surgery that now use texts. Literally every other dept we deal with, from diabetic eye screening to MRI scans to oncology to audiology for hearing aids, use envelopes and franking machines. The most ridiculous is probably the audiology dept where I make my next appointment at the reception desk and watch them print off the letter, put it in an envelope and put it in the post-out tray - I've asked them to just hand it to me, but they say it has to go through their post room to "prove" it's been sent out!

[Blackberrycream]

@Badbadbunny
I have seen similar in schools. Shocking amounts were paid for building works using council approved contractors. Furniture and stationary were also from certain providers at considerable mark ups.

[Blackberrycream]

Stationery.
Sorry!

[Bythemillpond]

TheHoneyBadger
Then only order those pills every other month
You have control over what you order or you call and have the repeat changed on the system

I could burst out laughing at that statement.

Dh does order exactly what he wants. It doesn’t make any difference.

As for writing to the practice manager. Again been there done that got the T. Shirt.
It just doesn’t get through.

[Buzzinwithbez]

Not replace an MP that has resigned in the midst of allegations of horrific levels sexual harassment with a candidate who made disparaging comments about women.

Provide some checks and balances to what's been going on during the past year.
Protect the right to protest.

I really thought starmer was going to cut through the BJ clown act and make him step up to the mark, but sadly it has been allowed to perpetuate.

[KleineDracheKokosnuss]

I provide services to the NHS. There are many good people within it. But overall it’s backwards, creaking and badly run.

[TeacupDrama]

it happens all over the place with procurement the local school pay more for standard A4 paper through procurement it is cheaper at full retail price in Tesco
I used to work in as dentist independent but 95% NHS, the community dental department was paying £1.15 extra for every single box of gloves same brand same colour same size just more that would add up to £12,300 a year in just one small dental unit with 4 dentists , that is a least 60% of a dental nurse annual salary but was told it was not financial viable for her to spend half and hour getting best price, at her rate of pay saving £12k in 30 minutes is definitely the correct financial decision

[user1497207191]

I think a lot of the procurement managers must be very naive and have little real business experience.

It's well know that "no one" pays the normal/advertised price of most things. Whether it's a brand new car, or a 4 pack of Heinz beans. The "list" prices are mere fiction as you can always get a discount either by shopping around or negotiation. Stationery and office equipment/supplies is notorious - the catalogue pricing is an over-inflated joke and the salesmen will always "negotiate" a discount on their catalogues. It allows procurement managers to go back to their bosses/Board and say "Aren't I clever, I negotiated a 20% discount with supplier ABC", but other more savvy business procurers would have got a 50% discount as they'd know what the "real" market rates were being paid in real life.

[flashbac]

As predicted. Big Labour losses. I hope they can turn it around but very much doubt it.

[TruelyWonder]

Interesting all the points made on this thread in the first few pages are the reasons being stated now.

Surprised? NO

[AlmostSummer21]

[quote luckylavender]@AgeLikeWine - could you tell me the Lottery numbers too? Because right now there is no way you can predict that with such certainty. [/quote]
@luckylavender

Well she wasn't wrong was she!?

[luckylavender]

@AlmostSummer21 - yes I was

[flashbac]

It's not been as bad as I first thought. Some gains from traditional Tory areas in the south, Andy Burnham and Sadiq Khan wins and a new Labour mayor for West Yorkshire.

[AsMuchUseAsAMarzipanDildo]

Rachel Reeves as Shadow Chancellor ... it’s like Labour want to remain in Opposition for the next 10 years. Is there really nothing better on the backbenches? Is this a legacy of the Bromentum years? Are they literally trying to make female politicians look shit?

I’m picturing Malcolm Tucker...
“We should probably promote some women to the shadow cabinet, makes us look all progressive. But not the good ones yeah. Just the really unimpressive, very poor speakers, go to crap under Holly & Phil’s intense questioning. We don’t want them getting ideas above their station!”.

[GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER]

Re the wasted drugs pps have referred to, as in endless repeat prescriptions that aren’t needed and never used, IMO the answer is to make everybody pay something for prescriptions.

A Swedish friend who lived here for over 20 years told me that in Sweden, popularly supposed to be a socialist Utopia, everybody* pays a small amount for prescriptions, with an annual cap for those who need a lot. There are also small charges for visits to the GP or A&E, and for the ‘hotel’ element of hospital stays.
*including her dad, who was over 90 and not well off.

An older friend of ours would regularly accumulate dozens of (free) repeat prescriptions of various items - more than once I counted over 60 on his bathroom shelves. He was very tight with money, although he had plenty, and I’m quite sure would never have taken so many items he didn’t need if he’d had to pay even £2 each. I dare say the same would apply to a lot of older people who get them for free.

Now and the the whole lot would be thrown out by a friend who was an ex nurse. He was even prescribed paracetamol, which costs pennies to buy, whereas I read that merely the admin cost of a prescription is around £7.