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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #63

910 replies

nauticant · 24/09/2026 13:07

TLDR version: Sandie Peggie vs Royal College of Nursing is currently being heard. The hearing started on Wednesday 23 September 2026 and is scheduled to end on Thursday 1 October 2026.

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims were of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claimed to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and after a prolonged process judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025. That judgment is being appealed and an appeal hearing is expected to take place in 2027.

Additional legal claims have been raised. Sandie Peggie is taking action against the Royal College of Nursing, against three senior managers who were witnesses in the employment tribunal - Dr Kate Searle, Dr Maggie Currer and Esther Davidson, against Carol Potter, the chief executive of NHS Fife, for victimisation, against NHS Fife for discrimination, and against its director of people and culture David Miller for harassment. In addition, Sandie Peggie is being investigated by the Nursing and Midwifery Council over fitness to practice.

The past proceedings were live tweeted by www.x.com/tribunaltweets. Tribunal Tweets are likely to be providing coverage in current and future proceedings. There's additional information on Tribunal Tweets' substack: tribunaltweets.substack.com/.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 60: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5461133-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-60 16 December 2025 to 8 January 2026

Thread 61: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

Thread 62: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5562302-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-62 3 August 2026 to 24 September 2026

OP posts:
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Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 14:46

CriticalCondition · 25/09/2026 14:46

I love the way NC can reel off a list.

It was beautiful

nauticant · 25/09/2026 14:46

NC has so far been allowed a surprising amount of latitude in her cross-examination. In previous hearings this kind of approach will have been strongly objected to or shot down by the judge.

That said though, the judge might be allowing NC to push the boundaries to avoid activating a potential appeal ground.

OP posts:
CriticalCondition · 25/09/2026 14:47

He's not quite dead yet...

BettyBooper · 25/09/2026 14:47

NC therefore a misogynists' creed?
NP I'm sorry could you repeat that for me?
NC repeats
NP not sure I entirely agree....A 'transperson living as a woman isn't misogynist hard to reconcile with rapist in women's prison
NC but the fund prob with this creed, is that it doesn't distinguish 'nice harmless Trans ID men' and predators, chancers, perverts. It doesn't distinguish
NP yes
NC the RCN male dominated despite number of women members
NP yes

YouCanCallMeMonster · 25/09/2026 14:47

MarieDeGournay · 25/09/2026 14:45

He'll need one!
I feel like pulling Naomi away by the arm and saying 'Leave it, Nay, 'e's not worf it' at this point.
But I'm not observing, so maybe he isn't sufficiently humbled and needs a bit more 'questioning'Grin

I would say that his survival instincts have kicked in and he’s desperately trying to keep to The party line.

chilling19 · 25/09/2026 14:47

”misogynist creed” has entered the chat!

Hedgehogforshort · 25/09/2026 14:47

@MarieDeGournay the longer he is in the stocks getting rotten fruit chucked at him the better i say.

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 14:47

BettyBooper · 25/09/2026 14:47

NC therefore a misogynists' creed?
NP I'm sorry could you repeat that for me?
NC repeats
NP not sure I entirely agree....A 'transperson living as a woman isn't misogynist hard to reconcile with rapist in women's prison
NC but the fund prob with this creed, is that it doesn't distinguish 'nice harmless Trans ID men' and predators, chancers, perverts. It doesn't distinguish
NP yes
NC the RCN male dominated despite number of women members
NP yes

NC but the fund prob with this creed, is that it doesn't distinguish 'nice harmless Trans ID men' and predators, chancers, perverts. It doesn't distinguish

Jennifer Lopez Applause GIF by NBC World Of Dance
Tallisker · 25/09/2026 14:47

She certainly wasn’t allowed to be so frank with Tinkerbell.

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 14:48

Break 10 minutes

MarieDeGournay · 25/09/2026 14:48

NC Gender ideology privileges the rights of a minority of men over all women?
NP yes

Well, that's quite an admission!.

BettyBooper · 25/09/2026 14:49

NC - quotes from doc - the make up of council doesn't reflect membership. The consequences of this are seen by many that a misogynistic voices dominate, the current way of business is not fit for purpose.
NC - executive summary describes this as unacceptable misogyny.
J - we will take a ten minute break.
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ickky · 25/09/2026 14:49

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 14:47

NC but the fund prob with this creed, is that it doesn't distinguish 'nice harmless Trans ID men' and predators, chancers, perverts. It doesn't distinguish

She also said fetishists

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 14:49

YouCanCallMeMonster · 25/09/2026 14:47

I would say that his survival instincts have kicked in and he’s desperately trying to keep to The party line.

He's being a lot more snappy in his "I don't agree" and "yes" responses

Justabaker · 25/09/2026 14:50

Norman deserves every single bamboo shoot NC is shoving under his fingernails. And more besides.

All that it requires for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

I'm pretty sure Normal self-identifies as a good man.

chilling19 · 25/09/2026 14:50

I must say I preferred the fully remote hearings carried out during COVID - we could actually see who was questioning and who was being questioned. <Fond memories of Ben C>

YouCanCallMeMonster · 25/09/2026 14:50

nauticant · 25/09/2026 14:46

NC has so far been allowed a surprising amount of latitude in her cross-examination. In previous hearings this kind of approach will have been strongly objected to or shot down by the judge.

That said though, the judge might be allowing NC to push the boundaries to avoid activating a potential appeal ground.

I think the basis of the claims perhaps permits the latitude and allows NC to explore these topics.

MarieDeGournay · 25/09/2026 14:51

Boiledbeetle · 25/09/2026 14:49

He's being a lot more snappy in his "I don't agree" and "yes" responses

Hmmmm in that case, no mercy - 'Go on Nay, give 'im 'ell!'

PersonIrresponsible · 25/09/2026 14:51

Is the judge a woman?

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 14:52

@BettyBooper I'll carry on when we start again, is that OK?

Thank you for all you do, and enjoy what you'll be doing later.

NotInMyyName · 25/09/2026 14:52

LovelyHotDonutsNiceNFresh · 25/09/2026 14:41

'Can you hazard a guess?' is going to be this year's 'and would it be rude of me to ask how that is working out?'

I have used Ben’s quote in REAL LIFE and I felt really clever !

YouCanCallMeMonster · 25/09/2026 14:52

PersonIrresponsible · 25/09/2026 14:51

Is the judge a woman?

Yes

fanOfBen · 25/09/2026 14:52

I've only heard part of his evidence so tell me if I missed something contradicting this impression, but... It wouldn't be relevant to ask him his own views, but it sounds as though if one did, he might quite easily admit to being GC himself?

CriticalCondition · 25/09/2026 14:53

Observations in the break - he is very uncomfortable - his voice has become croaky, he's swinging slightly in his chair, defensive tone, touching his face.

BettyBooper · 25/09/2026 14:53

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 14:52

@BettyBooper I'll carry on when we start again, is that OK?

Thank you for all you do, and enjoy what you'll be doing later.

Brilliant, thank you!! Very much appreciated!!