Kenwood Ladies Pond Authoritarians

It is so helpful having someone on here with so expert a knowledge and understanding of what happened - without the interpretation I would never have understood all that from watching the video - even those who were there seemed to have not fully understood, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and knowledge.

I bet you’re glad you got that off your chest, you must feel better now.

Again.

She was not 'screaming'. She was making a speech to a crowded and noisy room. She was not having a conversation with anyone while she was on that chair.

Your accusations are very clearly misrepresenting the situation and heavily reliant on your own prejudices about her.

Of course, you are perfectly free to continue to misrepresent her as 'screaming' and 'deranged'. However, anyone seeing the video can see that she is not 'screaming' and is making coherent points and in no way is 'deranged' unless someone has a distorted view of what screaming and deranged means.

Perhaps you have personalised definitions for those words that don't fit with the general population's understanding of those words?

It’s quite something to “feel uneasy” about a T-shirt saying “Trans women are men” — particularly when you’re not trans yourself — at a venue where there’s been a long-standing dispute over who can access the ladies’ pond. So yeah someone's campaigning in a relevant space, get over it.

Apparently, some political messages are deeply upsetting when they’re the wrong political message. Yet someone turning up to a Green Party rally in a “Making plans for Nigel” T-shirt and a guillotine and uploading it to Green Party pages somehow didn’t cause any similar sorts to feel unease and call it out.

Someone help me out please. Does this qualify as screaming?

Goodness me.

Or this

Perhaps we need to ‘Repent motherfucker’!!

https://x.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1450988051166019588/video/1?s=46

Like being back at school? Did boys hang around in the girls’ changing room at your school? Did the male teachers spend breaks listening to the girls peeing? Were your parents OK with that?

No wonder you’ve grown up with a strange outlook.

THIS ^^

All the "inclusion is the most important thing in the entire world & if you don't let men into womens spaces you are hateful bigots" pushers are lying & only interested in getting men into womens spaces, effectively destroying womens spaces.

they give ZERO FUCKS about the inclusion of women who will then be EXCLUDED from womens spaces - and whose life will be dramatically altered as a result.

Hello urinary leash, its been a while but here you are again. 🙄

Whenever someone mentions INCLUSION please think about who will be EXCLUDED by the policy. Generally its always ...... you guess it WOMEN.

And as women tend to quietly self exclude without fuss it goes largely unnoticed. And if a woman dares to speak up, and raise her voice to project it in a noisy room she is accused of screaming unreasonably or even wose she will be accussed of <gasp> screeching 😂😂😂

The messsage is simply "Women Shut The Fuck Up" and "Women do as you are TOLD" over and over and over - and we've been hearing it for millenia now.

and as always there are so many dick carrying handmaidens and Aunts enforcing this onto non compliant women & girls.

Like every other human, trans identified men have the protected characteristic of sex - the male sex.

Excellent post RobinEllacotStrike

Hi @Mouldemort. I see you haven't given any reference to support your claim that they can also provide a service to people with two protected characteristics. I guess that you haven't been able to find a reference in EA2010 because the Act doesn't provide such an exception. You either made it up or you have listened to somebody else who made it up. Disinformation or misinformation? Either way it's 0/10. This is not hard.

OMG I love that wee wummin. I wonder where she is now.

I think every event should have a repent motherfucker on tambourine.

Particularly love the wee prelude of 'excuse me, excuse me' accompanied by a shaking of the tambourine bells as she makes her way through the crowd, and the perfectly synchronised 'repent motherfucker' that builds to a crescendo as the big chap gives his speech.

Perfection.

I know. She makes me smile everytime!

Ugh. What a creep.

It's here. You can have Muslim Women swimming, transgender and women swimming, Christian men swimming, etc.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/guidance/codes-practice/code-practice-services-public-functions-and-associations/chapter-twelve#associationsmayrestrictmembershiptopersonswhoshareaprotectedcharacteristic

Err….. you get a point for trying. Try reading it more closely next time that document does not mean what you think it means. HTH

You’ve misunderstood. A Muslim woman would not change a single sex service to mixed sex. Including a transgender woman into a service claiming to be single-sex would render it mixed sex. You needed to read the bit on single-sex exceptions.

I am saying that it is perfectly legal to have swimming sessions which include women and transgender people, which is what they are doing. They are specifically saying it's not single sex. That's what the guidance allows.

“Although our consultation was never a referendum, the message from regular swimmers and the wider community was clear – people want these Ponds to remain safe, respectful and inclusive.

“Whilst the Supreme Court judgment confirmed the legal definition of ‘sex’, it did not decide that all trans inclusive services must become single-sex services.

“We have continued to listen and take detailed legal advice throughout this process. The approach agreed today protects the character and unique spirit of the Ponds while ensuring they remain welcoming to all.”

A women's group can include trans people, so long as they are female.

i.e. transmen.

“Whilst the Supreme Court judgment confirmed the legal definition of ‘sex’, it did not decide that all trans inclusive services must become single-sex services.

No, the services can be mixed sex. They can't, however, invoke the SSEs while also being mixed sex. Basic logic, really.

Do the ponds qualify as an association under the Equality Act or a service provider?

Under the Equality Act 2010, an association is defined as an organization or group of people that has at least 25 members and uses specific rules and a genuine selection process to control who can join

You don't need to be a member to swim at the ponds so it doesn't seem that the rules for associations would apply here.

Even if it did fall within the association rules what would the legitimate aim be for allowing trans identified men to use the women's pond. It's becomes mixed sex so the legitimate aims of providing single sex swimming don't apply.

I think though it would then have to be clear that all three pools were mixed sex.

Which as SCJ mentioned, could give rise to claims on the basis of indirect discrimination against women.

And the issue is, let's be honest, the desire to use the SSE, on the basis of sex, and name it as the WOMENS space, to then permit some men's identities to be gratified by everybody pretending to think they are women and letting them where only women are supposed to go.

The desired goal is that experience for men, using those women and a designated women's space, which then harms and excludes women to provide them as a resource and service for those men on a sexed basis.

Tis problematic.

If you want to call it a women's facility then you have evoked the SSEs.

If it is not claiming to be single sex under the Equality Act a man could challenge their exclusion.