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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is this what a sane but pro-Trans response to the EHRC Guidance looks like?

162 replies

RareGoalsVerge · 06/08/2026 13:39

I thought this was worth sharing as a potentially welcome, rational response to the EHRC guidelines. It's not perfectly in line with what we as feminists want, but it is way better than the toddler-tantrum responses I have seen elsewhere:
https://transfiguredmission.uk/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/faqs-for-churches-following-ehrc.pdf

It is clearly written from the point of view of wanting to be as inclusive as possible, within the scope of the law as it stands.
You cannot expect or require trans people to use the ‘wrong’ toilet, therefore you will need sufficient mixed sex / all gender toilets. You must be careful not to simply repurpose the disabled toilet as this could amount to unlawful disability discrimination.

If you have single rooms / cubicles with a lockable floor-to-ceiling door the simplest way to cater fairly to everyone is to make them all unisex – or most of them if you have lots. If you currently only have two – one labelled M and one F - you must do this.

This seems rational to me. The document goes on to highlight that for the most part, everything that reasonably can be unisex/open to all should be - and describes that things which should be legitimately single sex might include

  • whether women are likely to be in a state of undress
  • whether there will be limited ability for women to leave or to choose an alternative service
  • whether the service is provided a result of, or connected with, male violence against women
  • whether the physical differences between men and women are relevant to the experience of the service and put women at a particular disadvantage
Most single-sex church groups would not be ‘necessary’ under this analysis. You cannot require trans people to attend the group that corresponds to their ‘birth sex’

There's plenty not to like - I wish they didn't refer to things that are legitimately single sex as being for cis women - obviously cis is inappropriate for large numbers of women who have just been getting on with their lives for a many decades just existing as best they can under a patriarchy without the luxury or priviledge of the leisure to work out if they have a gender identity, and also many things in the above bullet-pointed list would be very much appropriate for people who are female but identify with a masculine or non-binary identity, so a better document would highlight benefits to female people of all gender identities rather than using cis. In the toilets section the authors clearly know, by implication, that gender neutral toilets are only legitimate if they are fully enclosed with floor-to-ceiling walls and doors, but fail to explicitly mention this or to draw attention to the well-known health and wellbeing detriments that arise when people are taken ill in such facilities. And the fact that they signpost to the Good Law Project at the end is disappointing.

But despite all this I thing its a welcome example of how reasonable organisations of good intention might do their best to find a reasonable way forward within the law, rather than just trying to ignore the law and carry on prioritising male people's wishes over female people's needs.

OP posts:
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Pingponghavoc · Yesterday 21:15

tallyoh · Yesterday 19:55

To be fair, I’m not sending a child into a separate room toilet on their own. This is an extremely hyperbolic example.

And if you pass out in a toilet cubicle, most people aren’t going to notice unless you alert them anyway, even with a gap.

A 15 year old is a child.

RareGoalsVerge · Yesterday 21:56

Mouldemort · Yesterday 12:55

The inevitable consequence of this incoherent, car-crash guidance is that providers will, as much as possible, switch to mixed-sex provision. That's what you get when you wish on a monkey's paw. Gender critical people will be spending a lot more of their time pissing in rooms with actual men rather than one in a hundred times pissing in a room with a trans woman.

The most efficient provision is STALLS and STALLS + URINALS.

The one which large companies go for is unisex lockable cubicles with a loo and a urinal.

It may take a few more court cases before this is sorted but no this isn't what will happen. It is already part of established case law that an organisation that doesn't provide adequate single-sex facilities for women is indirectly discriminating against women by creating a disadvantage where women are more likely to avoid going there because of feeling vulnerable in mixed-sex facilities. Some businesses will try to use this get-out and it's legitimate when the organisation is so small that there are only two self-contained units that used to be M&F and are now unisex. But any larger organisation who doesn't make adquate single sex provision will start losing sex-discrimination cases until they adjust to making adequate provision of both single-sex and unisex facilities in the right balance so that everyone has somewhere to go.

OP posts:
Waitwhat23 · Yesterday 22:52

tallyoh · Yesterday 19:55

To be fair, I’m not sending a child into a separate room toilet on their own. This is an extremely hyperbolic example.

And if you pass out in a toilet cubicle, most people aren’t going to notice unless you alert them anyway, even with a gap.

When I worked in buildings with toilets accessed by the general public, my colleagues and I had to climb over toilet walls on a regular basis to rescue people who had overdosed or collapsed through aerosol abuse.

We could tell they were in trouble because another member of the public ran through to our office to say that they could see someone in trouble on the floor. They could see them...because of the gap.

Appledrop · Yesterday 23:25

I hold a strong conviction that I cannot extend forgiveness to those, including some trans individuals and women, who have actively worked to strip away our rights. I believe this will not be forgotten by history, either. Regardless of whether a male/man chooses to wear a dress or trousers, if they enter our personal spaces, they are still fundamentally men. The notion that they are somehow special or possess “lady brains” is utterly perplexing and, frankly, unacceptable.

Take the case of Jimmy Savile as a cautionary tale; many people trusted him, believing he was above suspicion. He was granted access to vulnerable women and girls, which seems alarming in retrospect. The thought of what hidden truths may eventually surface about such breaches of trust is disturbing. I shudder to think of the revelations that could shake public opinion and highlight the severity of this betrayal.

Keeptoiletssafe · Today 00:36

tallyoh · Yesterday 19:55

To be fair, I’m not sending a child into a separate room toilet on their own. This is an extremely hyperbolic example.

And if you pass out in a toilet cubicle, most people aren’t going to notice unless you alert them anyway, even with a gap.

It’s not a hyperbolic example. It happens every school day.

Schools have been the guinea pigs for mixed sex floor-to-ceiling cubicles in mixed sex environments with shared sinks. It’s not been good for girls or medically vulnerable children.

Here’s a good example of the problems:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/drug-dealing-drinking-dirt-problems-28517175

I would have enough real life examples of harm of what happens to people in toilets to fill a book. I get my evidence from FOI requests, academic reports, coroners inquests, court reports, the police etc over the last few years. Mostly the UK but the problems are the same across the world.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · Today 00:47

tallyoh · Yesterday 19:55

To be fair, I’m not sending a child into a separate room toilet on their own. This is an extremely hyperbolic example.

And if you pass out in a toilet cubicle, most people aren’t going to notice unless you alert them anyway, even with a gap.

People do notice. @Keeptoiletssafe is one of them. It doesn't have to be "most people" who notice, it just has to be one who notices in time to avert permanent brain damage.

StandingDeskDisco · Today 07:59

Mouldemort · Yesterday 15:28

Any small provider with and handful of separate individual loos will switch to unisex, per the EHRC head's guidance in her Channel 4 interview.

The only thing the EHRC says about not providing single sex loos is it "could be direct or indirect sex discrimination against women who use the service " without specifying any examples or circumstances under which would be the case. It's an absolute car crash. A recent high court decision suggests that as long as there is some single-sex provision, it's find to provide other "mixed-sexed" loos based on gender rather than "biological sex."

Lockable, individual unisex cubicles with urinals are the gold standard.

A recent high court decision suggests that as long as there is some single-sex provision, it's find to provide other "mixed-sexed" loos based on gender rather than "biological sex."
Great - that is fine. As long as the transwomen don't use the female single-sex provision for 'validation'.

Lockable, individual unisex cubicles with urinals are the gold standard.
Absolutely not. They are far more dangerous, in many ways, than single-sex cubicles with gaps at the bottom of the doors.

StandingDeskDisco · Today 08:05

Mouldemort · Yesterday 17:08

No, I've not read what GLP said about it.

I was basing it on what the EHRC head said in her interview - the obvious solution for small providers is to go unisex. Sex Matters acknowledges that lockable cubicles with sinks and urinals are legal, and their only objection is they are "not inclusive," whatever that means.A large mixed sex loo with a couple of single sex ones is also fine according to this code. Clearly, mixed sex provision will increase. Many fitting rooms have been unisex for years, and that will only increase.

Providers want to avoid the impossibility of policing single sex spaces, the inevitable harassment of transgender people and (much more probably) gender non-conforming people, and many providers are actually supportive of trans rights.

Sex Matters acknowledges that lockable cubicles with sinks and urinals are legal, and their only objection is they are "not inclusive," whatever that means.
It means that they are not inclusive of women who can't use mixed-sex facilities, either for religious reasons, or because of a history of rape or abuse and the subsequent trauma or PTSD.

Many fitting rooms have been unisex for years, and that will only increase.
I think the market will sort this out. Women just won't shop at places with mixed-sex changing rooms. They will go elsewhere, or use online shopping with free returns (at a cost to the company).
Primark for example have made it quite clear that their women's changing room is single-sex - at least in the branch I went into recently.

Keeptoiletssafe · Today 09:57

@Mouldemort instead of guessing what Sex Matters says, why don’t you have a read. It’s concise but explains the laws and regs well and also shows why only having unisex toilets puts women and medically vulnerable people at a disadvantage.
https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/the-truth-about-toilets/

The truth about toilets 

Following the Supreme Court ruling on the meaning of the protected characteristic of sex, everyone wants to talk about toilets. The Equality Act, and this

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/the-truth-about-toilets/

Keeptoiletssafe · Today 10:03

StandingDeskDisco · Today 08:05

Sex Matters acknowledges that lockable cubicles with sinks and urinals are legal, and their only objection is they are "not inclusive," whatever that means.
It means that they are not inclusive of women who can't use mixed-sex facilities, either for religious reasons, or because of a history of rape or abuse and the subsequent trauma or PTSD.

Many fitting rooms have been unisex for years, and that will only increase.
I think the market will sort this out. Women just won't shop at places with mixed-sex changing rooms. They will go elsewhere, or use online shopping with free returns (at a cost to the company).
Primark for example have made it quite clear that their women's changing room is single-sex - at least in the branch I went into recently.

Yes inclusive means different things to different people. Accessible toilets are physically inclusive design.

Ironically the new unregulated ‘gender-neutral’ toilet designs marketed as ‘inclusive’ are best suited to healthy men. Who are the demographic that design them.

TidyRose · Today 10:25

And they give the Good Law Project as a source of advice. Naa, waste of time.

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