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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is this what a sane but pro-Trans response to the EHRC Guidance looks like?

165 replies

RareGoalsVerge · 06/08/2026 13:39

I thought this was worth sharing as a potentially welcome, rational response to the EHRC guidelines. It's not perfectly in line with what we as feminists want, but it is way better than the toddler-tantrum responses I have seen elsewhere:
https://transfiguredmission.uk/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/faqs-for-churches-following-ehrc.pdf

It is clearly written from the point of view of wanting to be as inclusive as possible, within the scope of the law as it stands.
You cannot expect or require trans people to use the ‘wrong’ toilet, therefore you will need sufficient mixed sex / all gender toilets. You must be careful not to simply repurpose the disabled toilet as this could amount to unlawful disability discrimination.

If you have single rooms / cubicles with a lockable floor-to-ceiling door the simplest way to cater fairly to everyone is to make them all unisex – or most of them if you have lots. If you currently only have two – one labelled M and one F - you must do this.

This seems rational to me. The document goes on to highlight that for the most part, everything that reasonably can be unisex/open to all should be - and describes that things which should be legitimately single sex might include

  • whether women are likely to be in a state of undress
  • whether there will be limited ability for women to leave or to choose an alternative service
  • whether the service is provided a result of, or connected with, male violence against women
  • whether the physical differences between men and women are relevant to the experience of the service and put women at a particular disadvantage
Most single-sex church groups would not be ‘necessary’ under this analysis. You cannot require trans people to attend the group that corresponds to their ‘birth sex’

There's plenty not to like - I wish they didn't refer to things that are legitimately single sex as being for cis women - obviously cis is inappropriate for large numbers of women who have just been getting on with their lives for a many decades just existing as best they can under a patriarchy without the luxury or priviledge of the leisure to work out if they have a gender identity, and also many things in the above bullet-pointed list would be very much appropriate for people who are female but identify with a masculine or non-binary identity, so a better document would highlight benefits to female people of all gender identities rather than using cis. In the toilets section the authors clearly know, by implication, that gender neutral toilets are only legitimate if they are fully enclosed with floor-to-ceiling walls and doors, but fail to explicitly mention this or to draw attention to the well-known health and wellbeing detriments that arise when people are taken ill in such facilities. And the fact that they signpost to the Good Law Project at the end is disappointing.

But despite all this I thing its a welcome example of how reasonable organisations of good intention might do their best to find a reasonable way forward within the law, rather than just trying to ignore the law and carry on prioritising male people's wishes over female people's needs.

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Pingponghavoc · Yesterday 21:19

I have no idea if "single cubicles with urinals" mean a toilet, urinal and sink in an enclosed cubicle, or a toilet and sink in an enclosed cubicle and urinals and sinks outside.

Either way, women have to sit eye level with an urinal or have to walk past them to get to the cubicle. 'Perfectly reasonable'?

Keeptoiletssafe · Yesterday 19:54

Mouldemort · Yesterday 19:20

I read it. They were unable to come up
with any reason why single cubicles with urinals are not a perfectly reasonable and entirely legal solution.

Why would they want to come up with urinals in single sex cubicles? Women can’t use them. Or is it urinals that women have to walk past to get into totally private cubicles?

Either way, it’s against building regs and legislation. You can’t have read it well.

Mouldemort · Yesterday 19:20

Keeptoiletssafe · Yesterday 09:57

@Mouldemort instead of guessing what Sex Matters says, why don’t you have a read. It’s concise but explains the laws and regs well and also shows why only having unisex toilets puts women and medically vulnerable people at a disadvantage.
https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/the-truth-about-toilets/

I read it. They were unable to come up
with any reason why single cubicles with urinals are not a perfectly reasonable and entirely legal solution.

TidyRose · Yesterday 10:25

And they give the Good Law Project as a source of advice. Naa, waste of time.

Keeptoiletssafe · Yesterday 10:03

StandingDeskDisco · Yesterday 08:05

Sex Matters acknowledges that lockable cubicles with sinks and urinals are legal, and their only objection is they are "not inclusive," whatever that means.
It means that they are not inclusive of women who can't use mixed-sex facilities, either for religious reasons, or because of a history of rape or abuse and the subsequent trauma or PTSD.

Many fitting rooms have been unisex for years, and that will only increase.
I think the market will sort this out. Women just won't shop at places with mixed-sex changing rooms. They will go elsewhere, or use online shopping with free returns (at a cost to the company).
Primark for example have made it quite clear that their women's changing room is single-sex - at least in the branch I went into recently.

Yes inclusive means different things to different people. Accessible toilets are physically inclusive design.

Ironically the new unregulated ‘gender-neutral’ toilet designs marketed as ‘inclusive’ are best suited to healthy men. Who are the demographic that design them.

Keeptoiletssafe · Yesterday 09:57

@Mouldemort instead of guessing what Sex Matters says, why don’t you have a read. It’s concise but explains the laws and regs well and also shows why only having unisex toilets puts women and medically vulnerable people at a disadvantage.
https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/the-truth-about-toilets/

The truth about toilets 

Following the Supreme Court ruling on the meaning of the protected characteristic of sex, everyone wants to talk about toilets. The Equality Act, and this

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/the-truth-about-toilets/

StandingDeskDisco · Yesterday 08:05

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 17:08

No, I've not read what GLP said about it.

I was basing it on what the EHRC head said in her interview - the obvious solution for small providers is to go unisex. Sex Matters acknowledges that lockable cubicles with sinks and urinals are legal, and their only objection is they are "not inclusive," whatever that means.A large mixed sex loo with a couple of single sex ones is also fine according to this code. Clearly, mixed sex provision will increase. Many fitting rooms have been unisex for years, and that will only increase.

Providers want to avoid the impossibility of policing single sex spaces, the inevitable harassment of transgender people and (much more probably) gender non-conforming people, and many providers are actually supportive of trans rights.

Sex Matters acknowledges that lockable cubicles with sinks and urinals are legal, and their only objection is they are "not inclusive," whatever that means.
It means that they are not inclusive of women who can't use mixed-sex facilities, either for religious reasons, or because of a history of rape or abuse and the subsequent trauma or PTSD.

Many fitting rooms have been unisex for years, and that will only increase.
I think the market will sort this out. Women just won't shop at places with mixed-sex changing rooms. They will go elsewhere, or use online shopping with free returns (at a cost to the company).
Primark for example have made it quite clear that their women's changing room is single-sex - at least in the branch I went into recently.

StandingDeskDisco · Yesterday 07:59

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 15:28

Any small provider with and handful of separate individual loos will switch to unisex, per the EHRC head's guidance in her Channel 4 interview.

The only thing the EHRC says about not providing single sex loos is it "could be direct or indirect sex discrimination against women who use the service " without specifying any examples or circumstances under which would be the case. It's an absolute car crash. A recent high court decision suggests that as long as there is some single-sex provision, it's find to provide other "mixed-sexed" loos based on gender rather than "biological sex."

Lockable, individual unisex cubicles with urinals are the gold standard.

A recent high court decision suggests that as long as there is some single-sex provision, it's find to provide other "mixed-sexed" loos based on gender rather than "biological sex."
Great - that is fine. As long as the transwomen don't use the female single-sex provision for 'validation'.

Lockable, individual unisex cubicles with urinals are the gold standard.
Absolutely not. They are far more dangerous, in many ways, than single-sex cubicles with gaps at the bottom of the doors.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · Yesterday 00:47

tallyoh · 07/08/2026 19:55

To be fair, I’m not sending a child into a separate room toilet on their own. This is an extremely hyperbolic example.

And if you pass out in a toilet cubicle, most people aren’t going to notice unless you alert them anyway, even with a gap.

People do notice. @Keeptoiletssafe is one of them. It doesn't have to be "most people" who notice, it just has to be one who notices in time to avert permanent brain damage.

Keeptoiletssafe · Yesterday 00:36

tallyoh · 07/08/2026 19:55

To be fair, I’m not sending a child into a separate room toilet on their own. This is an extremely hyperbolic example.

And if you pass out in a toilet cubicle, most people aren’t going to notice unless you alert them anyway, even with a gap.

It’s not a hyperbolic example. It happens every school day.

Schools have been the guinea pigs for mixed sex floor-to-ceiling cubicles in mixed sex environments with shared sinks. It’s not been good for girls or medically vulnerable children.

Here’s a good example of the problems:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/drug-dealing-drinking-dirt-problems-28517175

I would have enough real life examples of harm of what happens to people in toilets to fill a book. I get my evidence from FOI requests, academic reports, coroners inquests, court reports, the police etc over the last few years. Mostly the UK but the problems are the same across the world.

Appledrop · 07/08/2026 23:25

I hold a strong conviction that I cannot extend forgiveness to those, including some trans individuals and women, who have actively worked to strip away our rights. I believe this will not be forgotten by history, either. Regardless of whether a male/man chooses to wear a dress or trousers, if they enter our personal spaces, they are still fundamentally men. The notion that they are somehow special or possess “lady brains” is utterly perplexing and, frankly, unacceptable.

Take the case of Jimmy Savile as a cautionary tale; many people trusted him, believing he was above suspicion. He was granted access to vulnerable women and girls, which seems alarming in retrospect. The thought of what hidden truths may eventually surface about such breaches of trust is disturbing. I shudder to think of the revelations that could shake public opinion and highlight the severity of this betrayal.

Waitwhat23 · 07/08/2026 22:52

tallyoh · 07/08/2026 19:55

To be fair, I’m not sending a child into a separate room toilet on their own. This is an extremely hyperbolic example.

And if you pass out in a toilet cubicle, most people aren’t going to notice unless you alert them anyway, even with a gap.

When I worked in buildings with toilets accessed by the general public, my colleagues and I had to climb over toilet walls on a regular basis to rescue people who had overdosed or collapsed through aerosol abuse.

We could tell they were in trouble because another member of the public ran through to our office to say that they could see someone in trouble on the floor. They could see them...because of the gap.

RareGoalsVerge · 07/08/2026 21:56

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 12:55

The inevitable consequence of this incoherent, car-crash guidance is that providers will, as much as possible, switch to mixed-sex provision. That's what you get when you wish on a monkey's paw. Gender critical people will be spending a lot more of their time pissing in rooms with actual men rather than one in a hundred times pissing in a room with a trans woman.

The most efficient provision is STALLS and STALLS + URINALS.

The one which large companies go for is unisex lockable cubicles with a loo and a urinal.

It may take a few more court cases before this is sorted but no this isn't what will happen. It is already part of established case law that an organisation that doesn't provide adequate single-sex facilities for women is indirectly discriminating against women by creating a disadvantage where women are more likely to avoid going there because of feeling vulnerable in mixed-sex facilities. Some businesses will try to use this get-out and it's legitimate when the organisation is so small that there are only two self-contained units that used to be M&F and are now unisex. But any larger organisation who doesn't make adquate single sex provision will start losing sex-discrimination cases until they adjust to making adequate provision of both single-sex and unisex facilities in the right balance so that everyone has somewhere to go.

OP posts:
Pingponghavoc · 07/08/2026 21:15

tallyoh · 07/08/2026 19:55

To be fair, I’m not sending a child into a separate room toilet on their own. This is an extremely hyperbolic example.

And if you pass out in a toilet cubicle, most people aren’t going to notice unless you alert them anyway, even with a gap.

A 15 year old is a child.

Chersfrozenface · 07/08/2026 20:07

tallyoh · 07/08/2026 20:01

Even a cursory google tells you this is false and often misrepresented as based in on real crime data. If this was real, I might feel differently. But it isn’t.

The WRN report on mixed sex changing rooms was based on figures provided by police forces.

"The figures obtained by the WRN covered 257 leisure centres across England and Wales in 2023.

The data, provided by police forces, showed that where officers noted the location of the offences, most were in mixed-sex areas. "

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/12/09/sexual-predators-target-girls-mixed-changing-rooms-wrn-uk/

tallyoh · 07/08/2026 20:02

tallyoh · 07/08/2026 19:55

To be fair, I’m not sending a child into a separate room toilet on their own. This is an extremely hyperbolic example.

And if you pass out in a toilet cubicle, most people aren’t going to notice unless you alert them anyway, even with a gap.

Sorry, quoted the wrong poster here when referencing the child example as hyperbolic

tallyoh · 07/08/2026 20:01

ProfessorBinturong · 07/08/2026 14:31

Those mixed family cubicles you like are much less safe. They account for 50% of changing room provision but 90% of sexual assaults in changing rooms are in these mixed-sex ones. And I don't think that data includes voyerism and hidden cameras, which are also rife. When Stevenage leisure centre recently installed them, the local police publicly objected on safety grounds.

Even a cursory google tells you this is false and often misrepresented as based in on real crime data. If this was real, I might feel differently. But it isn’t.

tallyoh · 07/08/2026 19:55

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 07/08/2026 19:32

And a totally private ‘room’ is far nicer in general (was definitely preferable when I miscarried in the work toilets!)

A totally private room is far more dangerous if you black out, which I sometimes do just by standing up.

To be fair, I’m not sending a child into a separate room toilet on their own. This is an extremely hyperbolic example.

And if you pass out in a toilet cubicle, most people aren’t going to notice unless you alert them anyway, even with a gap.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 07/08/2026 19:32

tallyoh · 07/08/2026 14:15

I don’t believe this is true. My company has always had unisex individual floor to ceiling ‘rooms’ with their own sinks. We’ve moved buildings twice and this has been true in each one.

While I’m generally gender critical and very pro women-only spaces for DV shelters and hospital wards etc, I just can’t get upset about unisex toilet cubicles. Of course men occasionally pee on the seat, but women aren’t angels either. And a totally private ‘room’ is far nicer in general (was definitely preferable when I miscarried in the work toilets!)

I also have a young son and was thrilled when our local swimming pool changed everything to mixed family cubicles rather than an open gender-specific ‘locker room’. Much more private and suitable for families.

And honestly, I do think the vast majority of people - especially trans people - just want to pee and go on their way. If men want to cause harm to women, they won’t be stopped by single sex toilets. They’re hardly password protected.

I think we should be fighting hard for women’s sport and prisons and hospitals and protecting young girls from trans ideology and puberty blockers and all sorts of other things. But public loos are not a hit I would be dying on.

And a totally private ‘room’ is far nicer in general (was definitely preferable when I miscarried in the work toilets!)

A totally private room is far more dangerous if you black out, which I sometimes do just by standing up.

Is this what a sane but pro-Trans response to the EHRC Guidance looks like?
FrippEnos · 07/08/2026 18:55

Interestingly Mouldemort brings up trans men a group that the trans lobby couldn't give a fucl about until it got them sympathectic capital.

Arran2024 · 07/08/2026 18:49

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 17:16

I am saying that gender critical people have a habit of harassing gender non-conforming people (a criminal offence) for using a loo (not a criminal offence.)

A trans man who is not allowed to use either loo is absolutely within their rights to use the loo of their choice, and there is every chance they will be harassed if they use the women's. These are not criminal acts, I don't blame them at all for opposing segregation, and it's impossible for service providers under the code to do anything about it.

Service providers don't want this headache. They don't want to force transgender people to out themselves, and they don't want self-appointed genital police harassing their customers. So, mixed sex and lockable cubicles make this straightforward under the code.

Frankly, the whole thing depends on people's personal behaviour. I certaonly wouldn't say anything to someone who chooses to ignore the rules - I want them to do the right thing but I am not the toilet police.

If trans men choose to use the gents, the same will apply. Most people presumably won't call them out.

If you pass we'll enough, presumably you will get away with it. Of course most people don't pass and are going to be perfectly well recognised as their biological sex.

This may come as a huge shock to them, of course!!!

spannasaurus · 07/08/2026 18:33

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 17:16

I am saying that gender critical people have a habit of harassing gender non-conforming people (a criminal offence) for using a loo (not a criminal offence.)

A trans man who is not allowed to use either loo is absolutely within their rights to use the loo of their choice, and there is every chance they will be harassed if they use the women's. These are not criminal acts, I don't blame them at all for opposing segregation, and it's impossible for service providers under the code to do anything about it.

Service providers don't want this headache. They don't want to force transgender people to out themselves, and they don't want self-appointed genital police harassing their customers. So, mixed sex and lockable cubicles make this straightforward under the code.

What are you finding so hard to understand about which toilets a transman can use.

By default they should use the female or unisex loos, they may be asked to use only the unisex loos in some circumstances.

There are no circumstances in which they can be barred from female loos without an alternative being available

Pingponghavoc · 07/08/2026 18:31

A trans man who is not allowed to use either loo is absolutely within their rights to use the loo of their choice, and there is every chance they will be harassed if they use the women's.

This makes no sense.

Trans identifying women may be excluded from womens single sex services if its likely they will cause distress to the other women. May.

More likely they would continue to use unisex facilities.

Trans identifying men who have been harassing women by using women single sex spaces will have to use men's single sex or the unisex facilities.

So, mixed sex and lockable cubicles make this straightforward under the code.

I dont know how many times it needs to be said. Changing signs isnt enough. All toilets are lockable, but that doesnt make them easily changed to unisex.

Its not the easiest option for service providers.

backformoreofthesame · 07/08/2026 18:23

What’s the difference between. Gender critical and gender none conforming ?

I thought the difference was between gender none conforming people who believe in sex and gender none conforming people who don’t ?