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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is this what a sane but pro-Trans response to the EHRC Guidance looks like?

159 replies

RareGoalsVerge · 06/08/2026 13:39

I thought this was worth sharing as a potentially welcome, rational response to the EHRC guidelines. It's not perfectly in line with what we as feminists want, but it is way better than the toddler-tantrum responses I have seen elsewhere:
https://transfiguredmission.uk/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/faqs-for-churches-following-ehrc.pdf

It is clearly written from the point of view of wanting to be as inclusive as possible, within the scope of the law as it stands.
You cannot expect or require trans people to use the ‘wrong’ toilet, therefore you will need sufficient mixed sex / all gender toilets. You must be careful not to simply repurpose the disabled toilet as this could amount to unlawful disability discrimination.

If you have single rooms / cubicles with a lockable floor-to-ceiling door the simplest way to cater fairly to everyone is to make them all unisex – or most of them if you have lots. If you currently only have two – one labelled M and one F - you must do this.

This seems rational to me. The document goes on to highlight that for the most part, everything that reasonably can be unisex/open to all should be - and describes that things which should be legitimately single sex might include

  • whether women are likely to be in a state of undress
  • whether there will be limited ability for women to leave or to choose an alternative service
  • whether the service is provided a result of, or connected with, male violence against women
  • whether the physical differences between men and women are relevant to the experience of the service and put women at a particular disadvantage
Most single-sex church groups would not be ‘necessary’ under this analysis. You cannot require trans people to attend the group that corresponds to their ‘birth sex’

There's plenty not to like - I wish they didn't refer to things that are legitimately single sex as being for cis women - obviously cis is inappropriate for large numbers of women who have just been getting on with their lives for a many decades just existing as best they can under a patriarchy without the luxury or priviledge of the leisure to work out if they have a gender identity, and also many things in the above bullet-pointed list would be very much appropriate for people who are female but identify with a masculine or non-binary identity, so a better document would highlight benefits to female people of all gender identities rather than using cis. In the toilets section the authors clearly know, by implication, that gender neutral toilets are only legitimate if they are fully enclosed with floor-to-ceiling walls and doors, but fail to explicitly mention this or to draw attention to the well-known health and wellbeing detriments that arise when people are taken ill in such facilities. And the fact that they signpost to the Good Law Project at the end is disappointing.

But despite all this I thing its a welcome example of how reasonable organisations of good intention might do their best to find a reasonable way forward within the law, rather than just trying to ignore the law and carry on prioritising male people's wishes over female people's needs.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Keeptoiletssafe · Yesterday 15:44

AimsAndObjectives · Yesterday 15:37

@Mouldemort Lockable, individual unisex cubicles with urinals are the gold standard.

If you are going to keep stating this without addressing the points that other posters have made then you are not really moving the conversation along, are you?

Indeed The Good Law Project say having unisex toilets is the ‘sophisticated’ solution for school toilets.

AimsAndObjectives · Yesterday 15:50

Keeptoiletssafe · Yesterday 15:44

Indeed The Good Law Project say having unisex toilets is the ‘sophisticated’ solution for school toilets.

I suspect PP is relying a little too much on GLP's 'interpretation' of the law and the guidance. I thought most transactivists had begun to realise that GLP usually ends up doing more harm than good for their cause.

Shortshriftandlethal · Yesterday 15:56

Mouldemort · Yesterday 15:23

I meant the EHRC guidance as a whole is terrible for transgender people, not specifically the mixed sex provision. The code even suggests that trans men might have nowhere to pee at all.

I don't think it is terrible for people with trans identities in any other way than their gender identity is not being directly affirmed. On a practical level people will have to negotiate public facilities in the same way that other groups have had to for a long time. In some circumstances, for example, trying to find out beforehand what facilities are available for their use and where alternative facilities may be located.

One new build university auditorium/theatre where I live has the usual single sex blocks, plus an additional single occupancy 'gender neutral' facility alongside the 'accessible' facility. No fuss, no bother......just meeting anticipated needs in a proportionate manner. it is not difficult to achieve.

Keeptoiletssafe · Yesterday 15:57

AimsAndObjectives · Yesterday 15:50

I suspect PP is relying a little too much on GLP's 'interpretation' of the law and the guidance. I thought most transactivists had begun to realise that GLP usually ends up doing more harm than good for their cause.

Well I found out how much of an expert JM was about toilets when he was sneery about accessible toilets - calling them disabled toilets and thinking they would be out the way in a basement.

Shortshriftandlethal · Yesterday 16:00

Mouldemort · Yesterday 15:28

Any small provider with and handful of separate individual loos will switch to unisex, per the EHRC head's guidance in her Channel 4 interview.

The only thing the EHRC says about not providing single sex loos is it "could be direct or indirect sex discrimination against women who use the service " without specifying any examples or circumstances under which would be the case. It's an absolute car crash. A recent high court decision suggests that as long as there is some single-sex provision, it's find to provide other "mixed-sexed" loos based on gender rather than "biological sex."

Lockable, individual unisex cubicles with urinals are the gold standard.

Most of those sort of single ocupancy toilets are already just labelled 'toilet', and as such are already unisex.

Nobody is going to put a urinal in a unisex single occupancy facility - though they will need to provide a sanitary bin and an integral wash basin.

SwirlyGates · Yesterday 16:18

Mouldemort · Yesterday 15:28

The one thing I hope we can agree on is that the guidance is vague and unhelpful and leaves service providers with no clear guidance.

The guidance is simple and straightforward. The only people who might be confused are transpeople who have amnesia and can't remember what sex they are. Other transpeople will just follow the law of course, won't they, and then there is no issue for service providers to deal with. Or are you saying transpeople make a habit of breaking the law?

Clusterfuckular · Yesterday 16:24

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 06/08/2026 13:46

Yes - this was what jumped out at me too. “You cannot expect or require…” Why not?

It's the law.

It's what the vast majority of people support.

If people want to change this, they will need to change the law.

KrazyKatty · Yesterday 16:48

Why should women give way to the crazy entitled misogynistic 1% of the population?

Answer: We don’t have to!

Keep reminding them of the law and let’s increase the number of legal cases against illogical councils and inept employers.

Imdunfer · Yesterday 16:57

Waitwhat23 · Yesterday 13:02

Quick poll fellow UK posters! (as this is UK legislation)

Do you ever use the word 'stalls' to refer to toilet cubicles?

No. Cubicles have 4 walls, stalls have no 4th wall.

Some people refer to urinals with side boards as stalls.

In the equine world again stalls have no 4th wall and places where horses live with 4 walls are referred to as stables or loose boxes.

Mouldemort · Yesterday 17:08

AimsAndObjectives · Yesterday 15:50

I suspect PP is relying a little too much on GLP's 'interpretation' of the law and the guidance. I thought most transactivists had begun to realise that GLP usually ends up doing more harm than good for their cause.

No, I've not read what GLP said about it.

I was basing it on what the EHRC head said in her interview - the obvious solution for small providers is to go unisex. Sex Matters acknowledges that lockable cubicles with sinks and urinals are legal, and their only objection is they are "not inclusive," whatever that means.A large mixed sex loo with a couple of single sex ones is also fine according to this code. Clearly, mixed sex provision will increase. Many fitting rooms have been unisex for years, and that will only increase.

Providers want to avoid the impossibility of policing single sex spaces, the inevitable harassment of transgender people and (much more probably) gender non-conforming people, and many providers are actually supportive of trans rights.

AimsAndObjectives · Yesterday 17:16

I'll let everyone read the Sex Matters guidance and compare it to the 'mixed sex', 'unisex', 'sinks & urinals', 'cubicles' and 'stalls' word salads being provided in this thread.

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/the-truth-about-toilets/#unisex

The truth about toilets 

Following the Supreme Court ruling on the meaning of the protected characteristic of sex, everyone wants to talk about toilets. The Equality Act, and this

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/the-truth-about-toilets/

Mouldemort · Yesterday 17:16

SwirlyGates · Yesterday 16:18

The guidance is simple and straightforward. The only people who might be confused are transpeople who have amnesia and can't remember what sex they are. Other transpeople will just follow the law of course, won't they, and then there is no issue for service providers to deal with. Or are you saying transpeople make a habit of breaking the law?

I am saying that gender critical people have a habit of harassing gender non-conforming people (a criminal offence) for using a loo (not a criminal offence.)

A trans man who is not allowed to use either loo is absolutely within their rights to use the loo of their choice, and there is every chance they will be harassed if they use the women's. These are not criminal acts, I don't blame them at all for opposing segregation, and it's impossible for service providers under the code to do anything about it.

Service providers don't want this headache. They don't want to force transgender people to out themselves, and they don't want self-appointed genital police harassing their customers. So, mixed sex and lockable cubicles make this straightforward under the code.

SqueakyDinosaur · Yesterday 17:20

Keeptoiletssafe · Yesterday 15:44

Indeed The Good Law Project say having unisex toilets is the ‘sophisticated’ solution for school toilets.

Where "sophisticated" = unlawful?

Waitwhat23 · Yesterday 18:20

Mouldemort · Yesterday 17:16

I am saying that gender critical people have a habit of harassing gender non-conforming people (a criminal offence) for using a loo (not a criminal offence.)

A trans man who is not allowed to use either loo is absolutely within their rights to use the loo of their choice, and there is every chance they will be harassed if they use the women's. These are not criminal acts, I don't blame them at all for opposing segregation, and it's impossible for service providers under the code to do anything about it.

Service providers don't want this headache. They don't want to force transgender people to out themselves, and they don't want self-appointed genital police harassing their customers. So, mixed sex and lockable cubicles make this straightforward under the code.

Kudos for getting so many of the current TRA buzz words in just one post!

Segregation - tick!
Service providers can't do anything about it - tick!
'Code' - tick!
Genital police - tick!

Had you thrown 'genocide' and 'panties' in too, I'm guessing you would have gotten a standing ovation over at Reddit!

But I suppose they're all too busy with their 5th Aug Trophy Hunter photos in the Ladies toilets at the moment.

backformoreofthesame · Yesterday 18:23

What’s the difference between. Gender critical and gender none conforming ?

I thought the difference was between gender none conforming people who believe in sex and gender none conforming people who don’t ?

Pingponghavoc · Yesterday 18:31

A trans man who is not allowed to use either loo is absolutely within their rights to use the loo of their choice, and there is every chance they will be harassed if they use the women's.

This makes no sense.

Trans identifying women may be excluded from womens single sex services if its likely they will cause distress to the other women. May.

More likely they would continue to use unisex facilities.

Trans identifying men who have been harassing women by using women single sex spaces will have to use men's single sex or the unisex facilities.

So, mixed sex and lockable cubicles make this straightforward under the code.

I dont know how many times it needs to be said. Changing signs isnt enough. All toilets are lockable, but that doesnt make them easily changed to unisex.

Its not the easiest option for service providers.

spannasaurus · Yesterday 18:33

Mouldemort · Yesterday 17:16

I am saying that gender critical people have a habit of harassing gender non-conforming people (a criminal offence) for using a loo (not a criminal offence.)

A trans man who is not allowed to use either loo is absolutely within their rights to use the loo of their choice, and there is every chance they will be harassed if they use the women's. These are not criminal acts, I don't blame them at all for opposing segregation, and it's impossible for service providers under the code to do anything about it.

Service providers don't want this headache. They don't want to force transgender people to out themselves, and they don't want self-appointed genital police harassing their customers. So, mixed sex and lockable cubicles make this straightforward under the code.

What are you finding so hard to understand about which toilets a transman can use.

By default they should use the female or unisex loos, they may be asked to use only the unisex loos in some circumstances.

There are no circumstances in which they can be barred from female loos without an alternative being available

Arran2024 · Yesterday 18:49

Mouldemort · Yesterday 17:16

I am saying that gender critical people have a habit of harassing gender non-conforming people (a criminal offence) for using a loo (not a criminal offence.)

A trans man who is not allowed to use either loo is absolutely within their rights to use the loo of their choice, and there is every chance they will be harassed if they use the women's. These are not criminal acts, I don't blame them at all for opposing segregation, and it's impossible for service providers under the code to do anything about it.

Service providers don't want this headache. They don't want to force transgender people to out themselves, and they don't want self-appointed genital police harassing their customers. So, mixed sex and lockable cubicles make this straightforward under the code.

Frankly, the whole thing depends on people's personal behaviour. I certaonly wouldn't say anything to someone who chooses to ignore the rules - I want them to do the right thing but I am not the toilet police.

If trans men choose to use the gents, the same will apply. Most people presumably won't call them out.

If you pass we'll enough, presumably you will get away with it. Of course most people don't pass and are going to be perfectly well recognised as their biological sex.

This may come as a huge shock to them, of course!!!

FrippEnos · Yesterday 18:55

Interestingly Mouldemort brings up trans men a group that the trans lobby couldn't give a fucl about until it got them sympathectic capital.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · Yesterday 19:32

tallyoh · Yesterday 14:15

I don’t believe this is true. My company has always had unisex individual floor to ceiling ‘rooms’ with their own sinks. We’ve moved buildings twice and this has been true in each one.

While I’m generally gender critical and very pro women-only spaces for DV shelters and hospital wards etc, I just can’t get upset about unisex toilet cubicles. Of course men occasionally pee on the seat, but women aren’t angels either. And a totally private ‘room’ is far nicer in general (was definitely preferable when I miscarried in the work toilets!)

I also have a young son and was thrilled when our local swimming pool changed everything to mixed family cubicles rather than an open gender-specific ‘locker room’. Much more private and suitable for families.

And honestly, I do think the vast majority of people - especially trans people - just want to pee and go on their way. If men want to cause harm to women, they won’t be stopped by single sex toilets. They’re hardly password protected.

I think we should be fighting hard for women’s sport and prisons and hospitals and protecting young girls from trans ideology and puberty blockers and all sorts of other things. But public loos are not a hit I would be dying on.

And a totally private ‘room’ is far nicer in general (was definitely preferable when I miscarried in the work toilets!)

A totally private room is far more dangerous if you black out, which I sometimes do just by standing up.

Is this what a sane but pro-Trans response to the EHRC Guidance looks like?
tallyoh · Yesterday 19:55

selffellatingouroborosofhate · Yesterday 19:32

And a totally private ‘room’ is far nicer in general (was definitely preferable when I miscarried in the work toilets!)

A totally private room is far more dangerous if you black out, which I sometimes do just by standing up.

To be fair, I’m not sending a child into a separate room toilet on their own. This is an extremely hyperbolic example.

And if you pass out in a toilet cubicle, most people aren’t going to notice unless you alert them anyway, even with a gap.

tallyoh · Yesterday 20:01

ProfessorBinturong · Yesterday 14:31

Those mixed family cubicles you like are much less safe. They account for 50% of changing room provision but 90% of sexual assaults in changing rooms are in these mixed-sex ones. And I don't think that data includes voyerism and hidden cameras, which are also rife. When Stevenage leisure centre recently installed them, the local police publicly objected on safety grounds.

Even a cursory google tells you this is false and often misrepresented as based in on real crime data. If this was real, I might feel differently. But it isn’t.

tallyoh · Yesterday 20:02

tallyoh · Yesterday 19:55

To be fair, I’m not sending a child into a separate room toilet on their own. This is an extremely hyperbolic example.

And if you pass out in a toilet cubicle, most people aren’t going to notice unless you alert them anyway, even with a gap.

Sorry, quoted the wrong poster here when referencing the child example as hyperbolic

Chersfrozenface · Yesterday 20:07

tallyoh · Yesterday 20:01

Even a cursory google tells you this is false and often misrepresented as based in on real crime data. If this was real, I might feel differently. But it isn’t.

The WRN report on mixed sex changing rooms was based on figures provided by police forces.

"The figures obtained by the WRN covered 257 leisure centres across England and Wales in 2023.

The data, provided by police forces, showed that where officers noted the location of the offences, most were in mixed-sex areas. "

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/12/09/sexual-predators-target-girls-mixed-changing-rooms-wrn-uk/